Any rules of Thumb for "safe" ratio of attacking forces?

Hi, I'm a new player and trying to get a sense of what ratio of attacking to defending forces is required in order to have some confidence in a successful attack. For example, is a 2:1 ratio (or some other ratio) of attacker's total attack value to defender's total defense value required to easily take a city? I'm assuming you also need to take into account any unit- and strategy-based bonuses that apply to the given battle?

Strategies that doesn't nerf infantry attack

2 Infantry beat 1 Militia
4 infantry beat 2 Militia
5 Infantry beat 3 Militia
6 Infantry beat 4 Militia
7 Infantry beat 5 Militia
8 Infantry beat 6 Militia
9 Infantry beat 7 Militia
10 Infantry beat 8 Militia
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3 Infantry beat 1 Infantry
5 Infantry beat 2 Infantry
7 Infantry beat 3 Infantry
9 Infantry beat 4 Infantry
11 Infantry beat 5 Infantry
12 Infantry beat 6 Infantry
14 Infantry beat 7 Infantry
15 Infantry beat 8 Infantry
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Strategies where infantry attack is nerfed such as imperalist
2-3 Infantry beat 1 Militia
5 Infantry beat 2 Militia
6 Infantry beat 3 Militia
7 Infantry beat 4 Militia
8 Infantry beat 5 Militia
9 Infantry beat 6 Militia
10 Infantry beat 7 Militia
11-12 Infantry beat 8 Militia
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3-4 Infantry beat 1 Infantry
5-6 Infantry beat 2 Infantry
8 Infantry beat 3 Infantry
10 Infantry beat 4 Infantry
12 Infantry beat 5 Infantry
14 Infantry beat 6 Infantry
17 Infantry beat 7 Infantry
18-19 Infantry beat 8 Infantry
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If you attack using normal militia. Treat them like you treat Imperialist infantry. DO NOT ATTACK WITH IMPERIALIST MILITIA.
Tanks of all strat are worth 1.5 infantry each. Try not to be 0.5 short though cause it could significantly increase your chance of failure.
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For Desert Storm helicopters.
Treat them as tanks so they are worth 1.5 infantry each.
When fighting Infantry with Desert Storm helicopter, pretend those infantry are militia.
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For Marines treat them like tanks ie worth 1.5 infantry each. Once again make sure you are not 0.5 short.
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For GW militia treat them like regular infantry
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Do some math when you merge stuff.

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 11:30

It always helps to have a 2:1 ratio (but it may be overkill, and you may not have enough troops to invest into 1 attack like that), but it also depends what troops.
EG. 7tanks : 8malitia will most likely win even though its not a 2:1 ratio. but on the other hand 16malitia : 8infantry will most likely lose.
It will take a few games to understand the strengths and weakness of strategies and troops, but once you do. It will come naturally as of how much troops you need to kill "x" amount.

Also some troops gain a flat defense or attack bonus with certain strategies, such as MoS (Master of Stealth), gives marines +1 attack which helps out when they are in larger groups.

As I said above, you will learn what ratio work with what strategies as you play more games.

If you have anymore questions about this or another topic, feel free to ask.

huh, 16 mil beat 8 inf, just not as reliably as it should be, 17-18 better.

Geschreven door volcanohead, 18.10.2015 at 09:55

Hi, I'm a new player and trying to get a sense of what ratio of attacking to defending forces is required in order to have some confidence in a successful attack. For example, is a 2:1 ratio (or some other ratio) of attacker's total attack value to defender's total defense value required to easily take a city? I'm assuming you also need to take into account any unit- and strategy-based bonuses that apply to the given battle?

You get a stack bonus, you will get better rolls the higher proportion of units you have, so you will need less than what attack/defence implies and vice versa. Smaller battles are unreliable and usually require a higher attack/defence. Also keep in mind you cannot roll less than one so this skews the real average rolls of battles.

Thanks Royal, that's really helpful! I was under the impression that there was some randomness in the attacking-- what would you say that the likelihood of accuracy is for the scenarios you described? Is it pretty much a sure thing that "2 Infantry beat 1 Militia" or is it just more likely than not?

Geschreven door volcanohead, 18.10.2015 at 09:55

Hi, I'm a new player and trying to get a sense of what ratio of attacking to defending forces is required in order to have some confidence in a successful attack. For example, is a 2:1 ratio (or some other ratio) of attacker's total attack value to defender's total defense value required to easily take a city? I'm assuming you also need to take into account any unit- and strategy-based bonuses that apply to the given battle?

By the way, you posted this same topic twice, just thought I'd let you know

Yeah I'm not sure how that happened, I only submitted once.

Geschreven door volcanohead, 18.10.2015 at 12:38

Thanks Royal, that's really helpful! I was under the impression that there was some randomness in the attacking-- what would you say that the likelihood of accuracy is for the scenarios you described? Is it pretty much a sure thing that "2 Infantry beat 1 Militia" or is it just more likely than not?

All of them are at least 95% chance of success. Just know failures can happen.

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:30

huh, 16 mil beat 8 inf, just not as reliably as it should be, 17-18 better.

Treat Militia like imp infantry in my chart.

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:35

You get a stack bonus, you will get better rolls the higher proportion of units you have, so you will need less than what attack/defence implies and vice versa. Smaller battles are unreliable and usually require a higher attack/defence. Also keep in mind you cannot roll less than one so this skews the real average rolls of battles.

Oh I didn't know about that! Are values for the stack bonus listed anywhere or is this mostly just from observation?

Geschreven door volcanohead, 18.10.2015 at 12:44

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:35

You get a stack bonus, you will get better rolls the higher proportion of units you have, so you will need less than what attack/defence implies and vice versa. Smaller battles are unreliable and usually require a higher attack/defence. Also keep in mind you cannot roll less than one so this skews the real average rolls of battles.

Oh I didn't know about that! Are values for the stack bonus listed anywhere or is this mostly just from observation?

No values are not listed anywhere. Even admins cant figure out how stack bonuses work yet.

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:28

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:30

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 11:30

huh, 16 mil beat 8 inf, just not as reliably as it should be, 17-18 better.

That's why I wrote, it will most likely lose, it was an example of a 2:1 ratio that wouldn't work.

It will work most of the times I mean. like 70-80%

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:37

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 13:35

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:28

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:30

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 11:30

huh, 16 mil beat 8 inf, just not as reliably as it should be, 17-18 better.

That's why I wrote, it will most likely lose, it was an example of a 2:1 ratio that wouldn't work.

It will work most of the times I mean. like 70-80%

It won't, even 16inf : 8inf is risky.
Even with GW, it's risky to do 16malitia : 8inf.

lol with gw that's a sure win, same attack as inf.

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:45

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 13:43

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:37

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 13:35

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:28

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 12:30

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 11:30

huh, 16 mil beat 8 inf, just not as reliably as it should be, 17-18 better.

That's why I wrote, it will most likely lose, it was an example of a 2:1 ratio that wouldn't work.

It will work most of the times I mean. like 70-80%

It won't, even 16inf : 8inf is risky.
Even with GW, it's risky to do 16malitia : 8inf.

lol with gw that's a sure win, same attack as inf.

Nope because defence is different. That's the part that makes it a bit risky.

Um, how does the defence matter in attack?

Quote:

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:57

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 13:49

Um, how does the defence matter in attack?

When the GW militia attack with 4 attack, it wont kill the infantry since infantry have 6 defence, so if you do the math, they will most likely lose (16malitia : 8infantry).

That's why 18malitia :16infantry is always a risky battle regardless of strategy.

The inf defence is the same though...? My point was that gw mil 16:8 is same as normal inf 16:8.

Geschreven door volcanohead, 18.10.2015 at 12:38

Thanks Royal, that's really helpful! I was under the impression that there was some randomness in the attacking-- what would you say that the likelihood of accuracy is for the scenarios you described? Is it pretty much a sure thing that "2 Infantry beat 1 Militia" or is it just more likely than not?

Go safe in the starting turns, since one attack matters a lot more proportionally, later on you can be a bit more risky when failing something won't be catastrophic.

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 14:20

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 14:04

The inf defence is the same though...? My point was that gw mil 16:8 is same as normal inf 16:8.

Here is proof that, GW militia have less attack than the regular infantry (like the ones in neutral cities).

No strategy (Regular) :


GW :


*Do not look at the GW infantry, since those are not the same as the regular neutral infantry*

gw mil 4 att, normal inf 4 att....

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 14:20

Yes, but look at defence, every roll doesn't always do max attack, so sometimes the GW militia will do only 2attack, and the infantry will live, and the next militia may do 3 attack, and the same infantry will live again, while if the same attacks rolls were to happen for the infantry, they would kill a militia when the militia could not kill the infantry.

Therefore a 2:1 militia to infantry ratio is risky even with GW, assuming the infantry we are talking about are regular (neutral).

Don't take my word for it, ask someone like Clovis who knows a lot about AW, he will probably also tell you that its risky for 16maltia : 8Infantry.

*This doesn't mean 16 militia will never beat 8 infantry.*

WRONG
15-16 GW militia have almost the same chance of beating 8 infantry as 15-16 normal infantry does.

Geschreven door ROYAL, 18.10.2015 at 15:24

Geschreven door Xenosapien, 18.10.2015 at 14:04

Yes, but look at defence, every roll doesn't always do max attack, so sometimes the GW militia will do only 2attack, and the infantry will live, and the next militia may do 3 attack, and the same infantry will live again, while if the same attacks rolls were to happen for the infantry, they would kill a militia when the militia could not kill the infantry.

Therefore a 2:1 militia to infantry ratio is risky even with GW, assuming the infantry we are talking about are regular (neutral).

Don't take my word for it, ask someone like Clovis who knows a lot about AW, he will probably also tell you that its risky for 16maltia : 8Infantry.

*This doesn't mean 16 militia will never beat 8 infantry.*

WRONG
15-16 GW militia have almost the same chance of beating 8 infantry as 15-16 normal infantry does.

nice quoting

Geschreven door Darkmace, 18.10.2015 at 13:37

It won't, even 16inf : 8inf is risky.
Even with GW, it's risky to do 16malitia : 8inf.

2 gw militia will fail quite a bit against 1 inf, 4 gw militia vs 2 inf will have a better chance, 8 will again do better. 16 will nearly always beat 8. I would be surprised if you could show me a battle where 16 failed against 8. Why is this the case? Because this is a larger battle and the stacking effect is more effective.

@ the op fixed formulas for what to send vs neutrals are hard to find, what royal posted is fine but not perfect. 11 imperialist inf is a little risky vs 8 militia. Not to mention that it is a waste of infantry. Att/def is ok but you also need to consider hp for strats like IF and GC and so you can take the knowlege to maps without the default units and expand safely there. Games experience and observation will give you a feel for how the stacking effect works, unfortunately there is no known formula for it.