Democrat Debates: The Left, Leftists, and Leftward

Grudgingly, I've watched every Democrat debate this summer, and it's not getting any easier. Indeed, it's difficult for me to label this affront to human decency an actual "debate." Character attacks and rhetoric, that's the sum of their campaigns. It's disgraceful; the Dems are fighting fire with fire against Trump, and so everything is on fire, and the general public seems to be O.K. with it because politics has become a reality T.V. show. The way major media networks hype up these debates reminds me of Idiocracy.

Ten years ago, Biden was considered a radical, left-wing loon. Today, he's a moderate forced to defend Obama's legacy against his own party. The rip on Biden is that he's too rich and too white, neither of which is an argument, both of which are emotional appeals to identity politics and tribal polarization. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, it will be internal decay, not external attack, that defeats the United States of America. In other words, the barbarians can't enter the gates overnight, the internal structure of the country must be weakened before the barbarians can enter. What's going on now is accelerating a process that began several decades ago, and it's up to each and everyone of us to stop this immediately by taking action, whether that be through voting or engaging in reasonable discussion with those who support the modern left.

We are what remains of a centuries-long experiment, the experiment of democracy, the experiment of freedom. We can disagree on policy, we can disagree on popular opinion, but at the very least we ought to have mutual respect and admiration for the values which illuminated my country's founding and have spear-headed the battle against autocracy as well as socialism.

The primary election is akin to a circular firing squad, and the general election is akin to a parallel firing squad. In both cases, we're killing each other—left, right, and center. We're pulling at the tail ends of the social fabric, the bonds that unite us, and it's exasperated by the Democrat's march leftward. The left is so caught up in their own culture and social status that they've lost sight of what made America prosperous to begin with. They fail to see the reasons why our forefathers made the laws and Constitution the way they did, and in the process of undoing them, we are relearning the problems they faced. Beneath the froth and glitter of anti-wealth, anti-greed rhetoric lies a frightening prospect; our freedoms will be curtailed, displaced, and ultimately replaced with some arbitrary set of values, in direct opposition and contravention to the vision on which America was first realized.

Today, the Republican party is the party of decency, the party of reason, and the party of freedom—at least, of whatever freedom is left. I urge any Americans reading this forum to vote red and spread the message between now and November, 2020.

Clarification:

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 02.08.2019 at 05:59

These broad, over-arching labels are sometimes confusing. Disagreement on specific issues is often too complex for the use of labels such as "right-wing" and "left-wing" or "Democrat" and "Republican," however; principally, those who believe that communal rights trump individual rights, or that individual rights trump communal rights—the collective as opposed to the individual—tend to adhere to similar policy preferences with the left, obviously, championing the collective and the right championing the individual. Verbal dichotomies such as freedom and force, communal and individual, tradition and progress, liberty and virtue—these are points of division that, in effect, divide us into our respective political camps. Therefore, I consider myself Republican, and I believe that, for all intents and purposes, people who advocate for expansion of the welfare state, expansion of government involvement in the private sector, these people are Democrats.

Trump will win again

Nobody will even come close to trump

Geschreven door BannedFor1Year, 02.08.2019 at 10:18

Geschreven door ATX, 02.08.2019 at 06:09

Trump will win again

I like him, he is the president that has shown the USA power to the world.

He hasn't, he has made it more of an embarrassment.
At least over here, we love taking the piss and laughing at Americans and trump made it a funnier country to laugh at.

Lost some braincells reading this

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 02.08.2019 at 05:59

I urge any Americans reading this forum to vote red and spread the message between now and November, 2020.

Sean Spicer dreams about turning USA into communist state

Geschreven door DeepFriedUnicorn, 02.08.2019 at 11:15

Geschreven door BannedFor1Year, 02.08.2019 at 10:18

Geschreven door ATX, 02.08.2019 at 06:09

Trump will win again

I like him, he is the president that has shown the USA power to the world.

He hasn't, he has made it more of an embarrassment.
At least over here, we love taking the piss and laughing at Americans and trump made it a funnier country to laugh at.

What has he done to be embarrassed about?

Geschreven door Helly, 02.08.2019 at 14:53

What has he done to be embarrassed about?

He's body language and public speeches are very strange and cringey compared to the other leaders of the US. We all laugh at that and added with his random tweets, it can lead to some good bants and jokes between the nation.

Yes yes Donald Trump

The (((Republican Party)))
When are you guys going to figure out that there's no difference between the two parties, they're both controlled by lobbyists and the rich. America's doom is inevitable, if you wish to make a difference then arm yourself and start another civil war or await your fate.

Geschreven door DeepFriedUnicorn, 02.08.2019 at 15:28

Geschreven door Helly, 02.08.2019 at 14:53

What has he done to be embarrassed about?

He's body language and public speeches are very strange and cringey compared to the other leaders of the US. We all laugh at that and added with his random tweets, it can lead to some good bants and jokes between the nation.

Hes baiting liberals. It drives them nuts. I laugh to but at the cry babies not the president.

Geschreven door Helly, 02.08.2019 at 17:49

Hes baiting liberals.

If you see it that way, that's okay too.
We laugh at him because he acts unprofessional and is very cringey at his public speeches and meetings

Even the ones that like him laugh at him, it's funny

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 02.08.2019 at 05:59

Today, the Republican party is the party of decency, the party of reason.

With Trump as the leader, I don't think that's true. If the Republican party gets a decent person again (McCain/Romney), then perhaps it can talk. Right now it is assuredly the party of indecency and lack of reason. The democratic party is giving too much of a voice to AOC, Warren, and their ilk, but at least isn't morally bankrupt.

Fortunately, I live in God and Michael Moore's homeland. Here, things have only gotten worse since forever, and every policy-driven administration has only strengthened the ability of predator multinationals to exploit our working class. I've long pondered if the region peacefully leaving the union and forming an economic and shipping-based buffer republic is a dream, or necessary reality. To be clear, most people living in the Great Lakes and Rust Belt region are exploited and want more compensation for their work, conversely we also want less taxes.

Despite Illinois and Michigan being labeled as Blue zones, I would argue objectively that everyone here is purple and/or green by birthright: localized micro libertarian economic policy, macro mixed/socialistic economic policy. We don't usually believe in the welfare state here, but we typically believe in a living wage and/or economic traditionalist, many also adhere to local protectionism, a reason why local brands like Faygo, Better Made chips, and so on are as successful as they are.

I mention this because I have to disagree with you: I don't see the GOP as the party of decency and traditionalism, not when my heritage and livelihood have been eroded by a down-up economic system and inept politicians. What you must understand, is that America is no longer a unitary republic, it is an increasingly diverse federation of new subcultures that have emerged due to persistent social issues and racial emergence. I see the GOP and the DNA as boons to my state and the surrounding territory, and as we do not have regional governments to curb federal overreach, I have to vote not in the interest of the whole of America, but the working class of the Great Lakes.

Geschreven door Crow, 02.08.2019 at 17:48

The (((Republican Party)))
When are you guys going to figure out that there's no difference between the two parties, they're both controlled by lobbyists and the rich. America's doom is inevitable, if you wish to make a difference then arm yourself and start another civil war or await your fate.

In the United States, there's a two party system and there's no getting around that. The Republican Party does a much better job in defending the values stated above than the left-wing nonsense promulgated by the Democrats. In the either/or politics we live in today, it's best to go Republican. That's not to say there's not a more ideal system out there, the problem is that, as of now, it doesn't exist, and we can't vote for something that doesn't exist. Incremental steps can be made, and that is America's best bet for the near and distant future.

The parties are not controlled by lobbyists and the rich, they're controlled by the people. The "rich" have political views, too. The rich have made substantial contributions to the United States economy, they have every right to support whichever political persuasion they adhere to with the money they have, just like every other person. The notion that the U.S. is controlled by anyone other than the people is a conspiracy theory. It's the people who influence government, it's the people who lobby, it's the people who are rich, and it's the people who vote. There is no mysterious, elitist class floating in the ether of modern society. If you can provide me with convincing evidence there's a network of CEOs conspiring to bring the working man down, I'll listen to what you have to say. Obviously crony capitalism exists, but it is chiefly because of left-wing governance (especially in inner-cities) that tends to empower major industries through regulatory capture or when license is granted to a single company—these aren't Republican values; at least, not a Republican I'd vote for.

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 03.08.2019 at 08:37

Geschreven door Crow, 02.08.2019 at 17:48

The (((Republican Party)))
When are you guys going to figure out that there's no difference between the two parties, they're both controlled by lobbyists and the rich. America's doom is inevitable, if you wish to make a difference then arm yourself and start another civil war or await your fate.

...
The parties are not controlled by lobbyists and the rich, they're controlled by the people. ...

@ Crow: Based on this response, apparently no time soon ♥

i remember when the younger Bush got into power, people were saying things like 'well at least with him in power even the masses will see the gig is up'... only they didn't. With Trump, it became even more obvious - and still the masses defend the 'system', believing things are the way they are told.

I'm of the view the higher powers could put 2 wrestlers - oh wait that's been done already, actors, wait no also done porn stars against one another, and still people would say it's legit.

A friend nailed it when he explained it this way: If someone is asleep, you can at least try and wake them up. If they pretend to sleep, it's hopeless.

Geschreven door Garde, 03.08.2019 at 08:26

In some respects, I think you're right. The national parties are so fragmented by localities that, in some cases, these localities hold entirely different views compared to the Republican/Democrat parties. The major parties will inevitably splinter and we're seeing that happen, literally, right now. The radical progressives, based in inner-cities, are splitting from the Democrats; it appears as though the Democrat party will be first to splinter.

These broad, over-arching labels are sometimes confusing. Disagreement on specific issues is often too complex for the use of labels such as "right-wing" and "left-wing" or "Democrat" and "Republican," however; principally, those who believe that communal rights trump individual rights, or that individual rights trump communal rights—the collective as opposed to the individual—tend to adhere to similar policy preferences with the left, obviously, championing the collective and the right championing the individual. Verbal dichotomies such as freedom and force, communal and individual, tradition and progress, liberty and virtue—these are points of division that, in effect, divide us into our respective political camps. Therefore, I consider myself Republican, and I believe that, for all intents and purposes, people who advocate for expansion of the welfare state, expansion of government involvement in the private sector, these people are Democrats.

Geschreven door brianwl, 03.08.2019 at 08:50

Put my full quote into context, wokescold.

Economic entrepreneurs are different from political entrepreneurs. The former create value for society; the latter have figured out how to transfer resoures from others into their own coffers, usually by lobbying for subsidies, special favors, or anti-compettive laws. I'm not denying the latter exists, I'm denying it's as prevalent as people like you purport it is. If you read past that quote, taken completely out of context, you'd see that I said, specifically, "obviously crony capitalism exists."

I'm absolutely disturbed and, quite frankly, disgusted by people who suggest there's a "system" hellbent on silencing the people's voice. It's a scapegoat for left-wing politicians. "The system, the system, the system is to blame!" You're to blame if you made bad decisions in life. The rhetoric that absolves people of personal responsibility is evil and counter-productive in finding real solutions to the problems we face. If you can provide me evidence that there's an entire network of CEOs conspiring to bring the working man down, then please please please show me. Any evidence! I will genuinely listen to what you have to say. Until then, stop espousing this "system" rhetoric.

Geschreven door Cunaris, 27.12.2017 at 06:50

I want you, and anyone else who likes what Brian had to say, to give me an answer. I want an answer, because I'm sick an tired of people being blinded by this "system" rhetoric. I've asked Tik-Tok, I've asked every damn person on this forum to provide me evidence of a system that is, right now, trying to bring down the working man for personal gain through malpractice and illegal activity. If there is an instance of this, then it's illegal and I'll join you in condemning it.

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 03.08.2019 at 08:37

The parties are not controlled by lobbyists and the rich, they're controlled by the people. The "rich" have political views, too. The rich have made substantial contributions to the United States economy, they have every right to support whichever political persuasion they adhere to with the money they have, just like every other person. The notion that the U.S. is controlled by anyone other than the people is a conspiracy theory. It's the people who influence government, it's the people who lobby, it's the people who are rich, and it's the people who vote. There is no mysterious, elitist class floating in the ether of modern society. If you can provide me with convincing evidence there's a network of CEOs conspiring to bring the working man down, I'll listen to what you have to say. Obviously crony capitalism exists, but it is chiefly because of left-wing governance (especially in inner-cities) that tends to empower major industries through regulatory capture or when license is granted to a single company—these aren't Republican values; at least, not a Republican I'd vote for.

Oy vey, it's just a conspiracy, goyim. Stop noticing things, you anti semite!

Look at American politics, how can you possibly believe your politicians actually care about the average American? If that was the case then so many of your problems would've been solved by now. It's quite obvious that your politicians are bought off by lobbyists and corporate interests, a good example is the Military Industrial Complex - funding and weaponing terrorists all over the globe to create conflict and profit off the death and sufferings of others and then saying you're just 'defending freedom and bringing democracy'.

Let's not forget your politicians obsession and undying loyalty to Israel. Israel has been spying and taking advantage of their alliance with America for decades now, and people are finally beginning to realise it, especially with the Palestinian conflict. There's zionists in the Democrats and Republican who clearly put Israel first before America, like your friend Jared Kushner. What has Israel ever done for America to be considered to be their 'greatest ally?' Nothing. Israel just uses American politicians for their own political gain in the Middle East, buying off your politicians to send US troops to die in foreign wars that only benefit Israel and the military industrial complex.

If Israel is such a loyal ally to America then why do they continue to spy on Americans, steal intelligence from Americans, and commit false flag attacks on US ships and kill US soldiers in order to make US fight their wars for them? (USS Liberty)

If you still think these are just anti semetic conspiracy theories then watch these videos and do some further research on what goes on behind the scenes in American politics. The only reason why the (((media))) and Republicans lost their shit at Ilhan Omar was because she was telling the truth - Israel controls a lot of American politics through AIPAC.

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 03.08.2019 at 08:55

...

I'm absolutely disturbed and, quite frankly, disgusted by people who suggest there's a "system" hellbent on silencing the people's voice. ... please please please show me. Any evidence! I will genuinely listen to what you have to say. ...

Geschreven door Cunaris, 27.12.2017 at 06:50

I want you, any anyone else who likes what Brian had to say, to give me an answer. I want an answer, because I'm sick an tired of people being blinded by this "system" rhetoric. I've asked Tik-Tok, I've asked every damn person on this forum to provide me evidence of a system that is, right now, trying to bring down the working man for personal gain through malpractice and illegal activity. If there is an instance of this, then it's illegal and I'll join you in condemning it.

Don't worry, i am not about to persuade you... but i don't mind continuing to try and find a way to reveal how simple it is if you want to see it...

At the end of each day there is enough labour, capital and natural resources to eliminate the essential wants... Roosevelt described 4 freedoms {https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Freedoms} , but let's just focus on the third one he listed 'Freedom from Want' since if this want was met, everyone would be free to pursue their own path without compromising their integrity.

With the efficiencies achieved since Roosevelt first made this proposal in the early 40s, a time where nearly everyone (estimated to be over 90%) in the US had a roof over their head and food on their plate, there is no reason every american shouldn't securely own their own home, have a nutritional meal each day, and probably a car, or at least the means to get from where they are to where they need to be. So now with all those efficiencies, that last 10% would be trivial in the face of the all of our advancements in the past 70+ years.

This is the foundation of true freedom. If you have a roof over your head, and food in your belly, there is no excuse to compromise your integrity by violating another's freedom. And yet 'the system' - the one you claim does not exist - the one that keeps people fighting for enough money to pay for the mortgage or the grocery bill, is the one that encourages people to be dishonest, to compromise their integrity.

It seems obvious - you have the worst of the worst leading the united states.

I have hundreds of people i know on a personal basis... and of all of them, not one that i know who is even remotely immoral as the candidates (left or right, demo or rep, lib or cons).

And i put this out there... do you? I'm guessing your friends and family are also far more honest than the average politician.

I can't think of a single politician in the past 20 years that if they lived next door, i would trust to take care of my dog for the week-end. And they take care of the country???

Leader's should be wise - tolerant - knowledgeable - trustworthy - inviolable. I know many people like this in 'real-life' - yet somehow, the characteristics that are universally accepted as qualities of a good leader are NEVER found in political leaders (not just US, but most, if not all western democracies.)

And so when you take a step back, you see even if it were based on 'chance' sooner or later you'd get a candidate that had at least a few of these leadership characteristics. But it's fairly air tight the past 20 years... even the ones that are thought to be squeaky clean end up with a closet of skeletons.

So this is how any one with some relative discernment can see that there are people behind the scenes who ensure that the candidates placed before the 'people' are chosen, not on leadership ability, but on something else entirely. They want people who will accept campaign lobbyists, that will create division, that will perpetuate the erosion of liberty, and in general, to keep 'firing at each other' rather than do what every leader knows is most effective, and that is working FOR liberty and freedom.

Geschreven door Crow, 03.08.2019 at 09:44

"[The military industrial complex funds and provides weapons for] terrorists all over the globe to create conflict and profit off the death and suffering of others."

The military industrial complex existed, but it's been in decline for many decades now. Defense acquisitions laws actually deter companies from obtaining contracts. The Federal Acquisition Regulation System sets the rules for the way in which the DoD acquires goods and services through contracts with the private sector. If anything, we ought to be seriously concerned with the limitations these regulations impose; they weaken collaboration between the U.S. military and the industrial sector, and in effect weaken the United States's position in the world. To suggest that the U.S. actually profits from war and the suffering of innocents is absolutely ludicrous. Do you have any conception of how the "Military Industrial Complex" actually works, do you have any conception how contracts are designed between private industries and the DoD? Correlation does not imply causation. The industrial sector creates profit by creating products. People don't want war, I don't want war. But when Congress sends our soldiers overseas to defend America's interests abroad, the United States must have the capacity to wage war.

There's nothing wrong with the "rich" leveraging their amassed wealth to support causes or candidates they believe in. The rich are people, too. I can't believe you actually cited AOC in your second video. Yes, lobbyists and corporations fund politicians, but when people, and political opponents in particular, see that they support legislation that corresponds with the lobbying groups that support them, then those politicians will not retain their office for long. This is democracy.

If a politician flagrantly didn't care about the American people or his own constituents, then how could he possibly get into office? People have records and history, if someone's record suggests that he has been committed to the public good throughout his life, then it's pretty obvious the person at least cares about his constituents. Again, you're going to have to cite specific examples of specific politicians, and if you can do that then I'll join you in condemning them. Democracy isn't perfect, but this is our "system," and the system by and large works. This is, by far, the best time to be alive. Reforms can be made, show me the reforms, show me the reasons why, and we can have a discussion.

With regard to your point about Israel. From a foreign policy perspective, it is important for the United States to hold power with, not over, its allies. Israel is a strategic ally. Money is not the only thing influencing politicians to support Israel, common sense is. There's a difference between fair and unfair criticisms of AIPAC (an American organization, run by Americans), but there's no such thing as a fair/unfair criticism of BDS. Ilham Omar also supports, mind you, BDS, a flagrantly anti-semetic organization, and there's no justification for that.

"If Israel is such a loyal ally to America then why do they continue to spy on Americans, steal intelligence from Americans, and commit false flag attacks on US ships and kill US soldiers in order to make US fight their wars for them? (USS Liberty)"
You realize the USS Liberty incident was over 50 years ago, right? The reason why the U.S. fights along with Israel is because we have common enemies and common interests in the region. There's a difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism, and you're walking a thin line.

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 03.08.2019 at 11:00

Defend American interests? And what interests do the Americans have in the Middle East? Your CIA has overthrown officials in Middle Eastern countries (and other countries around the world) so they could act as puppets for America. Is that the type of interests your soldiers are dying for? Meddling in other countries politics and installing terrible people as leaders, not caring what happens to the country or the people, just as long as the rich and America benefit from it. So much for being the "good guys".

There IS a problem with the rich using their wealth to influence politicians, are you stupid? Does the average person have the ability to bribe their politicians to create laws and regulations that benefits them and make them richer? No. This isn't democracy, you can't just bribe politicians and then act like it's fair. I don't agree with AOC on certain things, but she is correct about lobbyists and their control over the political system. That's a huge reason why Donald Trump got attention and won in 2016 - he made it clear he wasn't backed by big corporations, and that he was doing this for the American people. Now you see some Democrats trying to play that card too in 2020, saying they're going to be running their campaign on money from supporters, the common people, and not from lobbyists. And no, they won't be voted out of their office thanks to gerrymandering.

How is Israel a strategic ally? The United States didn't have any trouble in the Middle East until Israel came about and your conquest for oil. What common sense is there to support Israel? Israel is the reason why America is even military involved in the Middle East in the first place, trillions of dollars put into the "War on Terror" to stop the terrorists your government created. And for what? Good job on weakening Israel's enemies and letting them acquire free land from the ruins. Doesn't matter that millions died and millions of other people are now homeless and scattered across the Middle East and Europe, it wasn't in vain as America had to help it's "Greatest Ally".

How the hell is BDS and anti-semetic organisation? This is a sneaky tactic used by zionists to shut down anyone who dares critize Israel and call them out for their human rights violations against Palestinians. Do you even know the definition of anti semitism? Or are you one of those zionists who just screams 'ANTI SEMITE' whenever someone says something negative about Israel? You're no better than the liberals who cry 'RACISM' when someone disagrees with them.

Yes, the USS Liberty was over 50 years ago, but it doesn't change the fact Israel purposely downed and killed US soldiers to drag US into their war and to fight for them. Is that something a "Great Ally" would do? It just shows how Israel views America: their bitch.

And as for being labelled as an anti semite, I don't care. People are beginning to wake up and see the truth about Israel and zionism.

Geschreven door brianwl, 03.08.2019 at 10:05

Brian, I'm gonna be reasonable. I understand your perspective, I really do, but what you're suggesting would actually achieve results contrary to their intended purpose. You mentioned Roosvelet's four freedoms, specifically the "freedom from want." Freedom from what, in effect, actually curtails the autonomy of individuals to pursue their own goals in life. Repeatedly throughout this forum I've spoke about the "network of CEOs" that is, supposedly, pulling the strings of the "system" that you purport exists. What I haven't mentioned is the network of rules and regulations imposed by our benevolent government. A government that, from what I can see, you clearly support, or the expansion thereof, at least. What does it take for there to be freedom from want? How far must our government encroach on our existing freedoms to bring about this utopia? Freedom from want is not possible unless the government is able to control all things people want. So, clearly, you must support an expansion of the welfare state, an expansion of government bureaucracy, while neglecting the fact that resources are scarce, and scarcity is the driving factor behind economics.

Politicians who promise all these gifts, who promise "freedom from want," who promise utopia, are not generally rational people. FDR was a socialist and there's a good argument to be made that he prolonged the Great Depression by almost eight years. Once these politicans seize political power, the more they will supposedly "give," the more the American people entitle them to take.

Geschreven door Crow, 03.08.2019 at 11:31

"Does the average person have the ability to bribe their politicians to create laws and regulations that benefits them and make them richer?"
The average person has the capacity to vote and, collectively, finance a candidate.

"You can't just bribe politicians then act like it's fair"
That's exactly my contention! Bribery, corruption—these things are illegal. We don't disagree as much as you think we do. All I'm suggesting is that the rich and the poor alike are free to support a candidate with the money they have if they truly believe in said candidate. When under-the-table dealings are exposed, or when a politician has figured out how to transfer resources from others into his own bank, usually by lobbying for subsidies, special favors, or anti-competitive laws, this is outright wrong, immoral, and potentially grounds for criminal conviction. I think we'd both agree on legislation that would make public the transactions lobbying groups make with members of Congress and/or with state/local politicians. When an individual or organization contributes to a campaign, correlation does not mean corruption. That's my point. But when a series of transactions correspond to a policy decision or several policy decisions, then this should raise public concern. Then, political opponents can capitalize on this, forcing the corrupt politician to either end this malpractice or lose re-election. Your point that "[corrupt politicians] won't be voted out of office thanks to gerrymandering" is somewhat misleading. Crime is not a partisan issue, crime is an issue, and if it's exposed, people won't vote for a candidate who perpetrated a crime.

With regard to your point on Israel:
Foreign policy is typically multi-faced, especially as it relates to the Middle East. Thomas Jefferson believed that "the objectives of foreign policy were but a means to the end of posterity and promoting the goals of domestic society." I believe in this, too. I was not wholly supportive of Bush junior's foreign policy, especially when he continued to support "staying the course" in Iraq when it became clear the decision itself was contrary to American interests. Fundamentally, American foreign policy is driven more by domestic values than international politics. We believe in democracy, Israel is democratic. We, generally, believe in freedom, and the regimes we toppled were tyrannical. We are allied to all Western democracies because they, like us, are democratic. We ally those whose values we share, and we make enemies with tyrants, this is a historical truth.

The U.S. presence in the Middle East has caused destabilization, I would have to be a loon to deny that. We should have never invaded Iraq, it caused a power imbalance that, before, was able to stymie Iran's expansionism. Once we invaded Iraq, we should have maintained a strong occupying force for at least two decades to prevent the situation Obama created in 2009. What should we do now? Now we can't do anything, I mean this seriously. We can't engage in reciprocal military strikes against Iran because that will act as a "rallying cry" for the government of Iran, stoking public support against the American "imperialists." All we can do now is wait and hope that the incipient democratic movements in Iran eventually take power. Israel is an asset in this cause, not a liability. Again, I'm not arguing whether our presence is moral or immoral, I'm arguing only in terms of American interests abroad.

"What interests do the Americans have in the Middle East?"
The United States is interested in protecting its own people. Do you remember 9/11? We had to take out the Taliban, which protected Al-Qaeda. Then, Bush made a horrible mistake by invading Iraq. Now, we're interested in stabilizing the Middle East, combating organizations that actively perpetrate terrorist attacks in the West, and overthrowing regimes that harm their own citizens—the U.S. has done a very bad job at this, I'm sure we both agree. The intentions are good, but it is indisputable that the United States could and should have approached the Middle East differently, looking back.

"Meddling in other countries politics and installing terrible people as leaders, not caring what happens to the country or the people, just as long as the rich and America benefit from it."
Just... just stop. How exactly are the rich benefiting from this? For every innocent child killed, do the rich get an extra dollar? Stop this anti-American, anti-wealth rhetoric.

OK...this is epic...

Lmao this is basically the Republican debate, on Atwar. They should run for president

Without trump, you lose

Geschreven door Full House, 09.09.2019 at 10:57

Geschreven door DeepFriedUnicorn, 02.08.2019 at 17:55

Geschreven door Helly, 02.08.2019 at 17:49

Hes baiting liberals.

If you see it that way, that's okay too.
We laugh at him because he acts unprofessional and is very cringey at his public speeches and meetings

Even the ones that like him laugh at him, it's funny

tbh I think those professional politicians are the real clowns, they speak only to say nothing.
Trump is the opposite of modern politicians that´s why people voted for him.

I'm aware. He can also come across as a clown however

Geschreven door Full House, 09.09.2019 at 11:00

Geschreven door Tribune Aquila, 03.08.2019 at 08:37

Geschreven door Crow, 02.08.2019 at 17:48

The (((Republican Party)))
When are you guys going to figure out that there's no difference between the two parties, they're both controlled by lobbyists and the rich. America's doom is inevitable, if you wish to make a difference then arm yourself and start another civil war or await your fate.

In the United States, there's a two party system and there's no getting around that. The Republican Party does a much better job in defending the values stated above than the left-wing nonsense promulgated by the Democrats. In the either/or politics we live in today, it's best to go Republican. That's not to say there's not a more ideal system out there, the problem is that, as of now, it doesn't exist, and we can't vote for something that doesn't exist. Incremental steps can be made, and that is America's best bet for the near and distant future.

The parties are not controlled by lobbyists and the rich, they're controlled by the people. The "rich" have political views, too. The rich have made substantial contributions to the United States economy, they have every right to support whichever political persuasion they adhere to with the money they have, just like every other person. The notion that the U.S. is controlled by anyone other than the people is a conspiracy theory. It's the people who influence government, it's the people who lobby, it's the people who are rich, and it's the people who vote. There is no mysterious, elitist class floating in the ether of modern society. If you can provide me with convincing evidence there's a network of CEOs conspiring to bring the working man down, I'll listen to what you have to say. Obviously crony capitalism exists, but it is chiefly because of left-wing governance (especially in inner-cities) that tends to empower major industries through regulatory capture or when license is granted to a single company—these aren't Republican values; at least, not a Republican I'd vote for.

What about the establishment?

The People have ultimate control, there's no denying that. If you want to create a new "establishment" or dissolve the current one, we can, we really can. I acknowledge that the relative plausibility of that course of action is small, however; but, just stay informed and vote Trump next election, ok? Then we'll put off the dissolution of American democracy for another 4 years.