Questions on stealth units and Master of Stealth

Hey, while playing MoS, I had a couple of questions about stealth units:

(MoS is Master of Stealth)

1. How does detection play into discovering stealth units? Does it always happen if a stealth unit lands in sight of an enemy unit? What about while attacking?

2. Do stealth units become detected after passing a unit (in sight) in middle of its journey in the span of a single turn?

3. If a stealth unit becomes detected, how does it go "in stealth" again? How long does it take? Should I be worried about becoming detected?

4. Is it awful to put many stealth unit in a single stack (for example, across the Atlantic, or across Central Asia in turn 28) for the risk of them getting discovered? how likely is it, and should I also avoid stacking a lot of stealth units while invading cities?

5. How many marines/stealth bombers to crack a 1-1-1 infantry wall? 1? 2?

6. Can I use stealth bombers like SM late in the game?

7. How in the world do I invade Europe playing MoS? Say I'm America and going across the Atlantic, or that I'm Russia pushing west. It seems like there's so many cities, so they are easy to defend in a single turn; meanwhile, I feel like my marines will all become discovered while preparing for the attack

8. How do I deal with sentry planes? They suck, but they have enough detection range to protect important areas against my marines... right?

9. How do I play against Relentless attack playing MoS?

10. If I do come across in a situation where I have to 1v1 in a somewhat close range (maybe South China vs India or Northeast America vs North-Mid America (place with Chicago and Illinois in it) playin MoS? Is it certain doom, or do I have a chance, especially in 25k/50k games?

11. How is Guerilla Warfare played? How different do I play it from MoS?

12. What's the best way to defend? I've been walling all my cities with a good number of infantry (maybe 8-11 per city and I can move them to my cap if the wall goes down). What should I do if my enemy kills many/all of my walls with bombers?

13. How do I deal with SM? What do I do against giant stacks of bombers? Retaliate with Stealth bombers if I have the cash? How do Stealth bombers trade with SM bombers when playing MoS?

Thanks for reading/maybe answering ^^

1. How does detection play into discovering stealth units? Does it always happen if a stealth unit lands in sight of an enemy unit? What about while attacking?

-- While attacking you can see units in the battle play feature. Thus, you are partially discovered. It won't apply to all units, and depending on the result of a battle your stealth will revert to stealth units. Detected stealth units are units that land in the "stealth detection" range, which you can toggle on or off on a small window panel at the bottom right corner of your screen.

2. Do stealth units become detected after passing a unit (in sight) in middle of its journey in the span of a single turn?

-- A stealth unit won't be detected by passing a unit or units on the course of it's destination. However, if a unit is present where it lands it will be detected.

3. If a stealth unit becomes detected, how does it go "in stealth" again? How long does it take? Should I be worried about becoming detected?

-- A stealth unit goes into stealth by entering one of your cities again. Your cities or an allies only. Otherwise it will not be in stealth. You shouldn't really be worried- usually if marines / stealths are detected it's because they've just entered a battle and are finished. It would be problematic if you were doing an overseas stealth attack. That is a strategic blunder, and there really isn't a way to amend it. Just continue on and make the attempt not to let it happen again.

4. Is it awful to put many stealth unit in a single stack (for example, across the Atlantic, or across Central Asia in turn 28) for the risk of them getting discovered? how likely is it, and should I also avoid stacking a lot of stealth units while invading cities?

-- "don't put all your eggs in one basket" on this game is sort of untrue. I guess it's an interesting question. Most people will put as many units as necessary into a location depending on it's strategical advantages, while opening other windows of opportunity. If you're sending stealths into empty cities be wary several things:

a.) Your enemy deliberately opening cities to shove units back into them and kill your units.
b.) Your enemy walling the location you have marines at.
c.) Do the areas you take actually benefit your odds?

The risk of stealths getting discovered isn't really predictable. I don't know anybody who actually records how often their stealths are detected, so I can't give you a real number. Stealth units can be seen moving on the battle play, but once the turn starts they aren't visible. So in a sense they CAN be seen so long as they are in viewing range of your opponent.

All in all, the likelihood of them being spotted should be assumed to be "likely".

5. How many marines/stealth bombers to crack a 1-1-1 infantry wall? 1? 2?

-- All of them are 1 unit, I believe. I've never known a time where I needed more units. Of course if you want your soldiers to survive attacking a wall then you'll more than 1. An IF wall can withstand an attack by a bomber sometimes, so if you want to use more bombers to really throw em off their game then send more to the wall.

6. Can I use stealth bombers like SM late in the game?

-- SM is a strategy not a bomber. And assuming you have opted for the Stealth Bomber upgrade, then you can deploy them at any point in the game.

7. How in the world do I invade Europe playing MoS? Say I'm America and going across the Atlantic, or that I'm Russia pushing west. It seems like there's so many cities, so they are easy to defend in a single turn; meanwhile, I feel like my marines will all become discovered while preparing for the attack

-- I recommend using Northern Africa & Morocco as a start. You might want to send a distracting but sizeable wave to Scandinavia to throw them off their guard, and then just totally destroy the Mediterranean with Marines. There is a guide made by learster in this same sub-forum I believe. If not, just ask a high rank who uses MoS.

8. How do I deal with sentry planes? They suck, but they have enough detection range to protect important areas against my marines... right?

-- Often times if your opponent is using Sentry planes it means that they can afford them. If they can afford them, it's usually a game larger than Europe+ and they probably took a guess at your strategy. I don't really have a recommendation here. Just try your best to avoid the common areas they could place them (they have a good viewing range so this is tough to achieve.)

9. How do I play against Relentless attack playing MoS?

-- Try to trap their tanks, and send marines to their primary income cities. Usually these folk playing RA are rushing type, so avoid falling for cheap gimmicks like 1 empty in an ocean full of walls.

10. If I do come across in a situation where I have to 1v1 in a somewhat close range (maybe Suth Chna vs India or Northeast America vs North-Mid America (place with Chicago and Illinois in it) playin MoS? Is it certain doom, or do I have a chance, especially in 25k/50k games?

-- You've got to be good. Practice MOS, practice 1v1s. Join a coalition to teach you anything they may have. Most 1v1s at high pay end up being solely based on skill.

11. How is Guerilla Warfare played? How different do I play it from MoS?

-- If you wish to learn, I wish to teach. GW isn't as much about the stealth aspect. It's about picking away at your enemy, annoying them. But there is more to it than just that. I for one have a fun way of using GW, though you'd have to be willing to learn it to master it.

12. What's the best way to defend? I've been walling all my cities with a good number of infantry (maybe 8-11 per city and I can move them to my cap if the wall goes down). What should I do if my enemy kills many/all of my walls with bombers?

-- If your enemy is chopping your walls down then make it imperative to distract them. Send marines to their capital, do things to catch them off guard and put them on the defensive. Once then, wall your cities and take port cities (if available) in order to really push their buttons.

13. How do I deal with SM? What do I do against giant stacks of bombers? Retaliate with Stealth bombers if I have the cash? How do Stealth bombers trade with SM bombers when playing MoS?

-- I'd recommend reading other guides on this. There should be plenty.

14. Should I walk my cities/caps after I take them with marines? Aren't walls useless if your enemy attacks back into that city by the next turn? What's a good time to rebuild walls after your enemy has broken them?

15. @Makarov, how do I "trap" tanks? I've heard about the blocking but never saw it happen in practice. Are 't walls automatically broken when an enemy unit walks through it on the same turn it's set up?

I'm willing to try and learn GW on the surface (just theory) so I can play it for fun. It seems to be a rather popular strategy.

Geschreven door HalfPlant, 30.07.2013 at 10:22

14. Should I walk my cities/caps after I take them with marines? Aren't walls useless if your enemy attacks back into that city by the next turn? What's a good time to rebuild walls after your enemy has broken them?

15. @Makarov, how do I "trap" tanks? I've heard about the blocking but never saw it happen in practice. Are 't walls automatically broken when an enemy unit walks through it on the same turn it's set up?

I'm willing to try and learn GW on the surface (just theory) so I can play it for fun. It seems to be a rather popular strategy.

The first two are about walls:

Walls aren't ever useless. They are really intended for precaution, all the way from preventing your capital from being randomly taken to delaying your enemy's attacks. I guess you can't trap tanks exactly, but what you can do is predict the distance at which it will travel, and wall all around the vicinity you believe it will land in. or atleast wall it away from your own cities. You can do this by even making 1 wall in front of a city such as Vienna. A single well-positioned wall would ultimately screw over an RA Turkey from attacking the wall-broken Berlin. This works similarly as Germany against UK, in the Netherlands you can set up a long wall just far enough away from it to avoid it being broken, and prevent him from insta-taking all your cities.

As for GW, I'd like to know your timezone & availability so I can teach it to you.

I'm wary of putting down walls right after I take an enemy city, because I've often had instances where enemy units just walk through it on the same turn, which means he had three less units to deal with when he retook the city. I usually just wall all my caps and cities, since I don't really know other kinds of walls that are useful. They seem to me to use up a lot of units that could be used elsewhere.

As for times, I'm usually around at 5-9pm est on Saturdays or Sundays.

If you don't wall it immediately, then at least make a wall behind it or infront it, bottom, top, etc.

The idea of a wall is that it prevents your opponent from making x,y,z moves in the same turn- and therefore in a sense a wall is like the ultimate turn block.

EST is doable for me, I'm in PST. Anyway, if you want we can begin your lessons tomorrow. My clan is learning too, so if you don't mind I'll be making games in order to demonstrate to all of you.

I don't have any time except for Saturdays and Sundays :/
So are you saying that if you wall a city on the same turn your opponent attacks the same city, their unit becomes turnblocked?

Eh it depends.
You can just use surrounding units.

If you're in a world game, that's usually where the problem you describe occurs. I've rarely experienced a game where I literally have no way of walling a city.
GW is a perfect solution for world games or FFAs in Europe, as you can always count on your militia to provide you a wall from most anywhere.

Though, to answer your question, generally yes. Though keep in mind TBing is based on percentages. I'm not very sure on the specifics, but generally there is a 50/50 shot you'll get a TB in at all.

This hasn't stopped anybody from trying to being successful in turn blocking. It just increases the potential for you to get lucky. However, even if the TB fails the unit that tried to TB you would get pushed outside the city- meaning your wall would still be jeopardized.

If you build your wall earlier than your enemy attacks and he takes your city, you will entrap him. It's all about movement priority.

Dreyer, are you going to be around tomorrow at about 7 est to teach me GW? I've been trying it in low income euro+ (5-15k) and I've been consistently failing... I can't seem to take much expansions, and other players just roll over me, regardless of whether if I have super-marines or not :/

Geschreven door HalfPlant, 02.08.2013 at 22:04

Dreyer, are you going to be around tomorrow at about 7 est to teach me GW? I've been trying it in low income euro+ (5-15k) and I've been consistently failing... I can't seem to take much expansions, and other players just roll over me, regardless of whether if I have super-marines or not :/

Yes I will be online.

I must warn you, playing GW legitimately does take some concentration/focus. If you're feeling ill, like having fevers or migraines, try to limit how often you use GW... it really would give you a headache after a serious game + being sick xD