Dueling Etiquette

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Het originele bericht

Geplaatst door Kord, 07.04.2015 - 10:16

It's come to my attention recently that I'm an incredibly unpopular player in this game. Certainly it's not a result of lacking social grace or charisma, but perhaps something less sophisticated and relevant. The game's dueling is something in the last few months I've gotten in to, through self discovery and teaching, and has resulted in the incredible rank and score I've acquired. Surely, that quick jump shouldn't be a problem; but it's the reason I'm writing this today. Although no one has given me a clear-cut, valid argument or regulation for the way we duelers operate, I feel obligated to listen to their wisdom (or lack thereof). So, as the title establishes, the latter portion of this forum is for our collective, educated ideas for dueling so that no one is: misused, tormented, criticized, belabored, or abusive with the dueling process.

One of the thoughts about my dueling which is seen as unfair or cheating is the variety of levels I contest. Yes, I've fought every rank except 1, 2, and the dreaded 13 at a variety of ranks. The furthest rank from my own was a Rank 3 I battled just the other day (I'm Rank 10). The question of course is: Is it unfair that a Rank 10 should be dueling Rank 3s that haven't a chance at winning? The answer is no. Rank means upgrades and it fallaciously assumes skill. Any number of reasons could allow a low ranking character to beat a high ranking character. The low ranking character could be an alt of someone very skillful, the low ranking character could be very skillful but hasn't had the chance to accumulate SP, or any other reason you can imagine. The point is, a character joins a duel because they think they can beat the other person. Whether or not they can is for a later point; the truth of this point is that it's the Rank 3's independent choice to try to win against that Rank 10. I recognize the lack of upgrades a low ranking character can have though, so I propose we establish ranks 0-4 should not fight ranks 5-13 unless extenuating circumstances are present.

The second problem people seem to have with my dueling style is the country I choose and have reserved just for me. Yes, it's true, I kick people that try to pick Wales in Primal's Medieval Europe 1150 when I duel there. Is it because the country is overpowered or anything other than my favorite? No. I duel there because I happened upon Wales and trained there for awhile before deciding to duel regularly. From there I've only lost on that map three times and once (today) as Wales itself. Wales is an exceptionally powerful country, with a superior position, economy, and troop production, it can pack a punch that'll knock down anybody that dares to fight. However, it can be beaten. Today it has been beaten and yesterday it almost had been (Mortimer was taken three times in that duel) and in other non-duel games I've beaten it. Ask Eagle (the Serbian one that beat Wales) or the Troll (guy that I beat when he was Wales) if you want verification. If the country was truly overpowered and unbeatable then it shouldn't be played. I think that's a given.

The last seemingly arguable point people have tried to make with me are the personal settings for a duel (turn time, initial funds, etc) and reserving a country. As far as the settings go, I think the go-to turn time for players should be four minutes unless they're both comfortable with less or a challenge is made for less. That means if two quick players want one minute turns then they can go for it, but I'll play my average pace and win through thoughtful engagement. Starting funds should be agreed upon by the two players but should be just enough to get the most expensive country. I allow 15k starting funds because with that money a person can get any country they desire and are not restricted or barred from good countries like Champagne, but also do not have enough money to spam units unskillfully until they win like in a 50k match. Rare units: none; leave it to skill and not chance.

As for reserving a starting country it should be looked at just like any other rule. If one or both of the players have a country they've trained as and they are capable fighters as it only makes sense for them to duel. It should be established whether or not characters decide to allow reservations or random selection. I think it makes more sense that duelers battle based on things they know rather than what they don't. It wouldn't make sense for a guy that knows fencing to be thrown in to a jousting tournament, or fair if a boxer had to strap on football equipment and not use what skills he actually has. Of course, players can opt to have certain countries banned from duels if they are completely overpowered and unstoppable with certain strats. I've read in the forums a Ukraine with Blitz in EU++ is unstoppable and Macedonia in Ancient World can't be beaten.

Regardless of the circumstances or allowances of my gaming style, it's not my intention to cheat my fellow players in AtWar. Quite the opposite is my intention, if this post has any effect, to educate my fellow players and better the gaming experience for all so that none should do wrong by us. Please post your thoughts on the matter.

Htin Blue-Dragons Berichten: 1983 Van: USA	07.04.2015 - 18:18 Htin Geschreven door Guest, 07.04.2015 at 17:55 Geschreven door Htin, 07.04.2015 at 17:50 would you duel me in the map i am making? I only play Europe+, for obvious reasons. You contradicted your belief, you says it's perfectly fine to duel in maps that give advantages like kord's dueling map to one player , yet you only duel in europe + for the reason you contradicted. ---- Hi Laden... Laden...
Chocobanalol Account verwijderd	07.04.2015 - 18:28 Chocobanalol Account verwijderd Geschreven door Htin, 07.04.2015 at 18:18 You contradicted your belief, you says it's perfectly fine to duel in maps that give advantages like kord's dueling map to one player , yet you only duel in europe + for the reason you contradicted. It's perfectly fine according to the rules, if it was up to me dueling would be impossible anywhere but in Europe+. There was no contradiction whatsoever in my posts, please try harder next time. Laden... Laden...
Htin Blue-Dragons Berichten: 1983 Van: USA	07.04.2015 - 19:12 Htin Geschreven door Guest, 07.04.2015 at 18:28 Geschreven door Htin, 07.04.2015 at 18:18 You contradicted your belief, you says it's perfectly fine to duel in maps that give advantages like kord's dueling map to one player , yet you only duel in europe + for the reason you contradicted. It's perfectly fine according to the rules, if it was up to me dueling would be impossible anywhere but in Europe+. There was no contradiction whatsoever in my posts, please try harder next time. Yes it's fine with rule, but you know what we meant when dueling in Kord map is nearly impossible because it's unbalance unlike Europe+ . I am now aware you understand what we are talking about. If it's impossible to duel in map other than kord there must be something wrong such as a country having an advantage over another country, Like laocra said earlier it's is basically farming, since kord don't allow player to play as kord berfore. As for kord i played both imp and blitzkrieg wales, i promise kord that if i win as wales that he should give up playing the unbalance map and not kord told me he might find other dueling map that may prove balance but he lied and after that he kick anyone who play as wales because he know the map well and knows that wales has a significant advantage over other countries. Also I find blitz wales far more superior than playing imp wales. As we should know blitz is a deadly strategies in 1vs1 on top of that he used it on a country such as wales that have low starting income with big reins, this gives him basically and advantage because ukraine and wales is sparkling similar in term of money and reins. Blitz + op starting country = op , when they have easy access to rich countries. Basically you agree that the map (Kord's farming map) is impossible to play other than a more balance map such as Europe+ . ---- Hi Laden... Laden...
Chocobanalol Account verwijderd	08.04.2015 - 05:25 Chocobanalol Account verwijderd Geschreven door Htin, 07.04.2015 at 19:12 Yes it's fine with rule, but you know what we meant when dueling in Kord map is nearly impossible because it's unbalance unlike Europe+ . I am now aware you understand what we are talking about. If it's impossible to duel in map other than kord there must be something wrong such as a country having an advantage over another country, Like laocra said earlier it's is basically farming, since kord don't allow player to play as kord berfore. As for kord i played both imp and blitzkrieg wales, i promise kord that if i win as wales that he should give up playing the unbalance map and not kord told me he might find other dueling map that may prove balance but he lied and after that he kick anyone who play as wales because he know the map well and knows that wales has a significant advantage over other countries. Also I find blitz wales far more superior than playing imp wales. As we should know blitz is a deadly strategies in 1vs1 on top of that he used it on a country such as wales that have low starting income with big reins, this gives him basically and advantage because ukraine and wales is sparkling similar in term of money and reins. Blitz + op starting country = op , when they have easy access to rich countries. I understand that you are annoyed by with what he does and so am I. But in my opinion it is within the rules and since those will always be a little up to interpretation I would rather search for a fix of this 'problem' other than telling him he is a farmer or something like this. A rank restriction would instantly do that for example. If the map really is as unbalanced as you guys suggest though, then I think you should talk to a mod. But as I said, this will always be in the eye of the beholder and ultimately won't fix the problem, since the process of publishing a map, playing duels on it and then reporting players who play overpowered countries on this map will certainly take more than one season. Quote: Basically you agree that the map (Kord's farming map) is impossible to play other than a more balance map such as Europe+ . I don't understand that sentence. I think that all duels should be played in Europe+ because it is the standard competitive map there would be nothing up to interpretation. Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 05:30 RaulPB Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 05:25 A rank restriction for example would instantly do that for example. If the map really is as unbalanced as you guys suggest though, then I think you should talk to a mod. Even if we implement a rank restriction, he can still keep dueling along his "immoral" ways. That's not something you can solve by some rules but by talking with him and convince him that what he's doing is considered wrong. It's just wales that is considerable unbalanced compared to the rest of the map actually and I don't think a mod can do much about it. Also it's not the map's fault that someone is exploiting this advantage, fault is still from a person. ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
Chocobanalol Account verwijderd	08.04.2015 - 05:34 Chocobanalol Account verwijderd Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 05:30 Even if we implement a rank restriction, he can still keep dueling along his "immoral" ways. That's not something you can solve by some rules but by talking with him and convince him that what he's doing is considered wrong. It's just wales that is considerable unbalanced compared to the rest of the map actually and I don't think a mod can do much about it. Also it's not the map's fault that someone is exploiting this advantage, fault is still from a person. You would have to talk to every single player who does that though. Maybe once we will have so many players that this simply isn't possible anymore. I know I'm being idealistic here but I would like permanent fixes of this type of problem. Restricting played ranks, and dueling only being possible in Europe and Europe+, and certain 'competitive maps' all advanced duel players agree on for example would be good. Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 05:39 RaulPB Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 05:34 You would have to talk to every single player who does that though. Maybe once we will have so many players that this simply isn't possible anymore. I know I'm being idealistic here but I would like permanent fixes of this type of problem. Restricting played ranks, and dueling only being possible in Europe and Europe+, and certain 'competitive maps' all advanced duel players agree on for example would be good. Well, in that case you would first need mod's support since they're the ones that redact the rules I guess. Also you'd need to discuss exactly which maps could be considered competitive and which would actually be the most fair rank differences for a duel. Somehow I find it hard to make everyone happy with these sort of rules since it's a bit subjective. ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
Chocobanalol Account verwijderd	08.04.2015 - 05:55 Chocobanalol Account verwijderd Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 05:39 Well, in that case you would first need mod's support since they're the ones that redact the rules I guess. Also you'd need to discuss exactly which maps could be considered competitive and which would actually be the most fair rank differences for a duel. Somehow I find it hard to make everyone happy with these sort of rules since it's a bit subjective. A simple poll would suffice, one could only participate with a certain Elo-rating for example. I am talking about beginning with Europe and Europe+ only, and adding maybe one competitive map per season. The subjectivity is the same when it comes to the rules and classifying what Kord does as farming. I don't think that talking to every single player about his or her dueling ethics is a very wise way to proceed. If it's within the rules, there will always be someone playing this way. Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 06:16 RaulPB Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 05:55 A simple poll would suffice, one could only participate with a certain Elo-rating for example. I am talking about beginning with Europe and Europe+ only, and adding maybe one competitive map per season. The subjectivity is the same when it comes to the rules and classifying what Kord does as farming. I don't think that talking to every single player about his or her dueling ethics is a very wise way to proceed. If it's within the rules, there will always be someone playing this way. I'm really sorry but I can't agree with such thing. As an ancient player I completely disagree with limiting duels only to Eu... Also I could add that Destroria or some other map around could be considered as optimal for dueling. Well... I guess it's not the most efficient nor fast proceedure but the most human... anyway, I don't have any problem with making some sort of rules for duels as well. ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
hormigaatomica Berichten: 302 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 06:19 hormigaatomica Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 05:30 Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 05:25 A rank restriction for example would instantly do that for example. If the map really is as unbalanced as you guys suggest though, then I think you should talk to a mod. Even if we implement a rank restriction, he can still keep dueling along his "immoral" ways. That's not something you can solve by some rules but by talking with him and convince him that what he's doing is considered wrong. It's just wales that is considerable unbalanced compared to the rest of the map actually and I don't think a mod can do much about it. Also it's not the map's fault that someone is exploiting this advantage, fault is still from a person. Agree with Raul, first of all, before rules or mods, is the personal decission and ethic. It´s not about the map, it´s about the person, map is there for everybody but only him is abusing of it. He´s who is kicking the people cause he´s who makes that duel, in that map, with that amount of money with a sole purpose. That map in 10k or 5k probably could be fair, but he won´t play it in that conditions. It can happen in every maps. If you duel a person in europe and set 25k or 50k probably Turkey has the advantage for the victory cause his starting units and reinf. He (or any other player) could do the same in any other map or situation. It´s about the personal condition. Laden... Laden...
hormigaatomica Berichten: 302 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 06:33 hormigaatomica Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 05:55 Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 05:39 Well, in that case you would first need mod's support since they're the ones that redact the rules I guess. Also you'd need to discuss exactly which maps could be considered competitive and which would actually be the most fair rank differences for a duel. Somehow I find it hard to make everyone happy with these sort of rules since it's a bit subjective. A simple poll would suffice, one could only participate with a certain Elo-rating for example. I am talking about beginning with Europe and Europe+ only, and adding maybe one competitive map per season. The subjectivity is the same when it comes to the rules and classifying what Kord does as farming. I don't think that talking to every single player about his or her dueling ethics is a very wise way to proceed. If it's within the rules, there will always be someone playing this way. Sorry but i disagree with that too. Duels in ancient, or middle east, or africa, or many other maps are funny and fair. Laden... Laden...
Sun Tsu Suicidal Cookies Berichten: 1939 Van: UK	08.04.2015 - 08:43 Sun Tsu Geschreven door iamzombie555REAL, 08.04.2015 at 08:43 Some strong farming here... iamzombie555REAL ---- intelligence + imagination = extraordinary result Laden... Laden...
hormigaatomica Berichten: 302 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 08:53 hormigaatomica He´s an example, there are a lot of them. Almost all of the duellers farm, i think the only one doesn´t do that is zone. They criticize"bouncher"or whatever is his name but almost all of them do the same. Laden... Laden...
Sun Tsu Suicidal Cookies Berichten: 1939 Van: UK	08.04.2015 - 09:12 Sun Tsu 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit ---- intelligence + imagination = extraordinary result Laden... Laden...
Legate Soldius Account verwijderd	+2 08.04.2015 - 09:13 Legate Soldius Account verwijderd Geschreven door Goblin, 07.04.2015 at 17:34 Long time i read a topic so full of shit as this one. Btw. i love when people say the "its beatable" cliche ...makes me wanna trow up and slap Clovis in the fucking head. Imagine me holding a shotgun and saying ..."there is a fork over there, come and try to stab me to death ...what? I know its unfair bro ...but its possible" Its reasonable that a duelist plays what he does best??? ...how will we arrange that every duelist plays what he does best at the same time every time? What makes you the special one? Hey ...i play the beeeest Ukraine vs Germany. Could you all please round up one by one so i can rape you with my best shit? Dueling Etiquette ...how dare you... lol agreed goblin, almost always right xD makes fun comparisons too Laden... Laden...
Goblin Stalins Martians Berichten: 3290 Van: Kroatië	+2 08.04.2015 - 09:13 Goblin Geschreven door hormigaatomica, 08.04.2015 at 08:53 He´s an example, there are a lot of them. Almost all of the duellers farm, i think the only one doesn´t do that is zone. They criticize"bouncher"or whatever is his name but almost all of them do the same. Again, again you repeating shit you said two weeks ago ...i would open your fucking head and remove the olive you have there instead of a brain. Go and suck Zones dick and no one does what blucher did. ---- Laden... Laden...
hormigaatomica Berichten: 302 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 09:30 hormigaatomica Geschreven door Goblin, 08.04.2015 at 09:13 Geschreven door hormigaatomica, 08.04.2015 at 08:53 He´s an example, there are a lot of them. Almost all of the duellers farm, i think the only one doesn´t do that is zone. They criticize"bouncher"or whatever is his name but almost all of them do the same. Again, again you repeating shit you said two weeks ago ...i would open your fucking head and remove the olive you have there instead of a brain. Go and suck Zones dick and no one does what blucher did. Wow chill man, it looks like the true offend. Laden... Laden...
Chocobanalol Account verwijderd	08.04.2015 - 09:40 Chocobanalol Account verwijderd Geschreven door hormigaatomica, 08.04.2015 at 06:33 Sorry but i disagree with that too. Duels in ancient, or middle east, or africa, or many other maps are funny and fair. Haha. Here we go again. Ok man. Laden... Laden...
hormigaatomica Berichten: 302 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 09:49 hormigaatomica Omg here we go where? Are you not able to difference an opinion? I´m giving my opinion, cause i especially like low money duels, and africa or middle east ones are funny and ancient duels too. What´s wrong with it? Laden... Laden...
Google Shadow Aces Berichten: 2705 Van: USA	08.04.2015 - 09:54 Google Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 09:12 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit Am I legit? I mean, at least I don't duel noobs in beginners room like Zombie.... XD <3 ---- Helpful Guides Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 10:00 RaulPB Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 09:54 Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 09:12 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit Am I legit? I mean, at least I don't duel noobs in beginners room like Zombie.... XD <3 Not unless you duel me on ancient first! ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
Google Shadow Aces Berichten: 2705 Van: USA	08.04.2015 - 10:01 Google Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 10:00 Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 09:54 Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 09:12 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit Am I legit? I mean, at least I don't duel noobs in beginners room like Zombie.... XD <3 Not unless you duel me on ancient first! Lol, pr me sometime... ---- Helpful Guides Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 10:07 RaulPB Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 10:01 Lol, pr me sometime... Yaaaay! Friended! Now you're cool enough to be considered legit, congratz! ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
Sun Tsu Suicidal Cookies Berichten: 1939 Van: UK	08.04.2015 - 10:09 Sun Tsu Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 09:54 Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 09:12 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit Am I legit? I mean, at least I don't duel noobs in beginners room like Zombie.... XD <3 You are indeed legit for an ancient fag ---- intelligence + imagination = extraordinary result Laden... Laden...
RaulPB Epic Clan Berichten: 6360 Van: Spanje	08.04.2015 - 10:10 RaulPB Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 10:09 ancient fag Said the Eu fag <3 ---- Don't ever look down on someone unless you're helping him up. Don't ever treat someone else the way you wouldn't want others to treat you. We're all people. Laden... Laden...
Google Shadow Aces Berichten: 2705 Van: USA	08.04.2015 - 10:18 Google Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 10:09 Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 09:54 Geschreven door Sun Tsu, 08.04.2015 at 09:12 8 out of the top 12 season elo players at the moment, i would say are legit Am I legit? I mean, at least I don't duel noobs in beginners room like Zombie.... XD <3 You are indeed legit for an ancient fag </3 ---- Helpful Guides Laden... Laden...
Google Shadow Aces Berichten: 2705 Van: USA	08.04.2015 - 10:28 Google Geschreven door RaulPB, 08.04.2015 at 10:07 Geschreven door Google, 08.04.2015 at 10:01 Lol, pr me sometime... Yaaaay! Friended! Now you're cool enough to be considered legit, congratz! ---- Helpful Guides Laden... Laden...
Legate Soldius Account verwijderd	+1 08.04.2015 - 10:43 Legate Soldius Account verwijderd Geschreven door Azula., 07.04.2015 at 16:49 If you join he's game he will tell you what he wants, if you agree then just accept your win or loss. stfu, you are dumb whore with a fatass, did you know that ? Laden... Laden...
Azula. Berichten: 1395 Van: België	08.04.2015 - 10:45 Azula. Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 10:43 Geschreven door Azula., 07.04.2015 at 16:49 If you join he's game he will tell you what he wants, if you agree then just accept your win or loss. stfu, you are dumb whore with a fatass, did you know that ? cthulhu pls ban this guy Laden... Laden...
Legate Soldius Account verwijderd	+1 08.04.2015 - 10:50 Legate Soldius Account verwijderd Geschreven door Azula., 08.04.2015 at 10:45 Geschreven door Guest, 08.04.2015 at 10:43 Geschreven door Azula., 07.04.2015 at 16:49 If you join he's game he will tell you what he wants, if you agree then just accept your win or loss. stfu, you are dumb whore with a fatass, did you know that ? cthulhu pls ban this guy what an idiot, 1 head and no brains, can't even find a proper name Laden... Laden...

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