Jerusalem A friendly topic

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 11:09

especially not one that used to play the role of abused and grasped for pitty from international community..

True. world leaders are indeed worm and sensetive people drived by of pitty and compassion. especially these of the generation that came up with the World War II thing

Also Jerusalem was international zone for like 3 hours. but someone desided to conquer it and desecrate other religions holy temples.

(a clue: Jordan)

Try to keep the discussion civil everyone, resorting to personal attacks only makes your arguments come across weaker.

Geschreven door AlBoZzZ, 15.12.2017 at 02:54

Geschreven door Helly, 14.12.2017 at 22:16

Geschreven door AlBoZzZ, 14.12.2017 at 19:13

Geschreven door Helly, 14.12.2017 at 09:07

Humans conquered people died, cultures died. Arabs cemented there claims on judea. It should not of been Britain's call to colonize a land already inhabited by another people, but they did, and the jews reclaimed part of there ancestrial homeland in the process. That is common through out history. But man kind is changing drastically, and in our current era it is not acceptable to force migrate, or genocide people because of a dejur claim on a land mass. Britain should not of given land to a Jewish state if it was already settled by arabs. But they did and Israel and the Jewish homeland is reborn, it is flat out retarded to think your going to remove them now after all they did to make that land there own, all the people that gave there lives, all the hard work those people did to modernize that land, you can't expect them to leave now, and the two state solution is the only right answer at this point.

nice speech, save it when you run for miss usa

I will report you every single time you fuck with me untill you leave me alone.

report me for quoting you? you are dumber than miss usa herself

For insulting me knowing damn well I won't engage you back because Google Chrome will mute me in a heart beat. Do us both a favour and mute me back and we can go on pretending each other don't exsist.

Badam ho bayeza yokam lano geza

Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 15.12.2017 at 14:03

Try to keep the discussion civil everyone, resorting to personal attacks will only makes your arguments come across weaker. get this thread locked.

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 12:57

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 11:09

especially not one that used to play the role of abused and grasped for pitty from international community..

True. world leaders are indeed worm and sensetive people drived by of pitty and compassion. especially these of the generation that came up with the World War II thing

I'm sorry but Jews can't live off of the Holocaust and what it happened to them, it doesn't give them special status in shit in the International Community and shouldn't, they're a State like every other State and equal (though equality does not exist and there's States superior to others). Israel is that country that cries about the Holocaust, bitches about it whenever it's mentioned but then occupied foreign land like the Golan Heights (whom they don't even de jure control) and other places, that and the fact that they're arrogant enough to disqualify Palestine from anything, when infact, they've been here for ages.
Personally I've never liked Israel because they are abusive and arrogant, and if you knew how much I loled when ur Israeli PM went to beg the EU to support him and the EU and all the states within it delivered the middle finger xd

A 2 State-solution is the only viable and "reasonable" solution with Jerusalem as the Capital of the 2 states. The State of Palestine exists and should exist, no matter what Israel bitches after that.

(Notice the hypocrisy of the Israelis by bitching about Holocaust every second but they have a far-right party in the Government? lol)

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 17:45

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 12:57

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 11:09

especially not one that used to play the role of abused and grasped for pitty from international community..

True. world leaders are indeed worm and sensetive people drived by of pitty and compassion. especially these of the generation that came up with the World War II thing

I'm sorry but Jews can't live off of the Holocaust and what it happened to them, it doesn't give them special status in shit in the International Community and shouldn't, they're a State like every other State and equal (though equality does not exist and there's States superior to others). Israel is that country that cries about the Holocaust, bitches about it whenever it's mentioned but then occupied foreign land like the Golan Heights (whom they don't even de jure control) and other places, that and the fact that they're arrogant enough to disqualify Palestine from anything, when infact, they've been here for ages.
Personally I've never liked Israel because they are abusive and arrogant, and if you knew how much I loled when ur Israeli PM went to beg the EU to support him and the EU and all the states within it delivered the middle finger xd

A 2 State-solution is the only viable and "reasonable" solution with Jerusalem as the Capital of the 2 states. The State of Palestine exists and should exist, no matter what Israel bitches after that.

(Notice the hypocrisy of the Israelis by bitching about Holocaust every second but they have a far-right party in the Government? lol)

The way that last thought of your sounded would lead me to believe you are making a comparison that right wing is inherently wrong cause of fascism. -Cough cough, Communism

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 17:45

I'm sorry but Jews can't live off of the Holocaust and what it happened to them, it doesn't give them special status in shit in the International Community and shouldn't, they're a State like every other State and equal (though equality does not exist and there's States superior to others). Israel is that country that cries about the Holocaust, bitches about it whenever it's mentioned but then occupied foreign land like the Golan Heights (whom they don't even de jure control) and other places, that and the fact that they're arrogant enough to disqualify Palestine from anything, when infact, they've been here for ages.
Personally I've never liked Israel because they are abusive and arrogant, and if you knew how much I loled when ur Israeli PM went to beg the EU to support him and the EU and all the states within it delivered the middle finger xd

A 2 State-solution is the only viable and "reasonable" solution with Jerusalem as the Capital of the 2 states. The State of Palestine exists and should exist, no matter what Israel bitches after that.

(Notice the hypocrisy of the Israelis by bitching about Holocaust every second but they have a far-right party in the Government? lol)

I will respond to this. but it seems like you forced yourself to make arguments because the base of your argument are very rough.

1. Israel does not live off the holocoust. Israel was founded in 150 years process despite the efforts of the west to oppose it or to slow it down.

2. We do not disgregard their existance. as i said the Israel public supports two states solution and big parts of it (i was tempted to say majority but it's deep night and i'm to lazy to check or bring sources) even willing to split Jerusalem for it. in fact the palestinians were offered that twice as part of peace agreement during Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmerts but they REFUSED. the only real questions are the details of the agreement and whether the other side should be trusted.

3. Israel conquered the Golan Heights for a reason. it's a very high place and Syrian snipers used it to put Israel civilians and farmers into target. in addition nowdays when Syria and Lebanon have so many rockets and missiles it is even more dangerous. and while Assad family officially stated that in the next war they will deliverly aim civil centers you can't expect anyone to take such a suicidial action. The Golan Heights will only be brought back to Syria as part of peace agreement.

4. Regarding the Palestinian history Issue. we largely debated it in the forum last weeks and i can't write long blocks of text every time someone mentions it. if you want that argument relevant you need to bring prrof to palestinian immodern national identity or even way of life that is above tribe.

5. It's true that the Likud party goes further right every year. but honestly the only reason they keep winning elections is the fault of the left. two years ago everyone wanted them to end their mandatory but instead of letting it happen the media desided to promote the most hated party of Israel (The Labour Party) as the main opponent of Nethanyahu. ofcourse half of Israel's population would rather give Hitler a second chance to have the Labour Party then we got 4 more years of the Likud. at the previous elections they did the same thing and founded journalists party that won the third place. in the last elections the journalist party (yesh atid) was suppose to bring the Likud down but the popular media refused to support it again because it was'snt leftist enough. the thing in Israel is that it's clear for everyone there is someone behind the wires so it's hard to gain their trust. if they would just let new party grow in netural way we would have cool government from already long time ago.

You need to understand that the left wing of the political map in Israel is still larger than the right wing. they are just devided into 3 or 4 major parties and another people in Israel is people vote to the big parties just so the other big party the hate more would'nt win so the representation is not really equal.

(But!! even though the Likud is full of morons it is far from being the fasict party that people try to make it look like. i often see people on the internet accuse it for the fact there is no peace. but in fact the Palestinian government does lot of effort to make sure their public will oppose any agreement with Israel - by education propoganda and etc..).

And - right wing party winning elections is not even close to the holocoust. especially now when they rise everywhere.

I personally oppose splitting Jerusalem because I know they will turn it into battlefield and base for terror. such an important city should not sink into chaos just because they desided they want it. When Jordan conquered Jersualem from the hand of the United Nations they drived out all the Jewish population there turned parts of our temple into sewerage blocked our access to our holy places and puted snipers to kill Israeli civilians. and that is by an Arab nation with ambitions to be western. PLO and Hamas are far worse and for sure will take any opportunity to hurt Israelies and humilate them.

Anyways. even if we will let the Palestinian have the whole of Jerusalem and resettle of the Jews in diffrent parts of Israel it won't be long before even the most hipster of the popes will call for crusade to liberate it.

Geschreven door Waffel, 10.08.2017 at 07:14

T

Geschreven door Helly, 15.12.2017 at 18:01

The way that last thought of your sounded would lead me to believe you are making a comparison that right wing is inherently wrong cause of fascism. -Cough cough, Communism

Haha no, right-wing is not fascism but being Israel the paladine against opression and bitching about being the opressed ones, having a party in power that defends opression of other peoples is hypocritical enough xd

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 18:17

I personally oppose splitting Jerusalem because I know they will turn it into battlefield and base for terror. such an important city should not sink into chaos just because they desided they want it. When Jordan conquered Jersualem from the hand of the United Nations they drived out all the Jewish population there turned parts of our temple into sewerage blocked our access to our holy places and puted snipers to kill Israeli civilians. and that is by an Arab nation with ambitions to be western. PLO and Hamas are far worse and for sure will take any opportunity to hurt Israelies and humilate them.

Anyways. even if we will let the Palestinian have the whole of Jerusalem and resettle of the Jews in diffrent parts of Israel it won't be long before even the most hipster of the popes will call for crusade to liberate it.

Let's be honest, a Crusade on Israel would be sexy xd

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:29

Geschreven door Helly, 15.12.2017 at 18:01

The way that last thought of your sounded would lead me to believe you are making a comparison that right wing is inherently wrong cause of fascism. -Cough cough, Communism

Haha no, right-wing is not fascism but being Israel the paladine against opression and bitching about being the opressed ones, having a party in power that defends opression of other peoples is hypocritical enough xd

In war there is always regulation, and oppression, and Israel has been under constant attack since it's conception. I would agree with you if it's actions where not based on the idea of protecting it's own people from hostile forces. It's not like Arabs would just stop shooting jews because Israel stopped oppressing them as you say.

Edit a good example is the united states in world War two had a leftist government in power and yet they put all the Japanese in the country in concentration camps.

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:29

Haha no, right-wing is not fascism but being Israel the paladine against opression and bitching about being the opressed ones, having a party in power that defends opression of other peoples is hypocritical enough xd

Facts:

1. Israel did'nt start any war ever.
2. Israel tried to end the conflict and promote two states solution more than once or twice. but the other side always refused.
3. Israel already gave vast territory back for peace and takes any opportunity it has for cooperation with its neighbors despite their behaviour.
4. Israel has many non-Jewish minorities (including arabic ones) that have faith in the authorities and vulenteer for non-play military service.

fascism is not our things.

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:30

Let's be honest, a Crusade on Israel would be sexy xd

Read again what is said.

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 18:09

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 17:45

I'm sorry but Jews can't live off of the Holocaust and what it happened to them, it doesn't give them special status in shit in the International Community and shouldn't, they're a State like every other State and equal (though equality does not exist and there's States superior to others). Israel is that country that cries about the Holocaust, bitches about it whenever it's mentioned but then occupied foreign land like the Golan Heights (whom they don't even de jure control) and other places, that and the fact that they're arrogant enough to disqualify Palestine from anything, when infact, they've been here for ages.
Personally I've never liked Israel because they are abusive and arrogant, and if you knew how much I loled when ur Israeli PM went to beg the EU to support him and the EU and all the states within it delivered the middle finger xd

A 2 State-solution is the only viable and "reasonable" solution with Jerusalem as the Capital of the 2 states. The State of Palestine exists and should exist, no matter what Israel bitches after that.

(Notice the hypocrisy of the Israelis by bitching about Holocaust every second but they have a far-right party in the Government? lol)

I will respond to this. but it seems like you forced yourself to make arguments because the base of your argument are very rough.

1. Israel does not live off the holocoust. Israel was founded in 150 years process despite the efforts of the west to oppose it or to slow it down.

2. We do not disgregard their existance. as i said the Israel public supports two states solution and big parts of it (i was tempted to say majority but it's deep night and i'm to lazy to check or bring sources) even willing to split Jerusalem for it. in fact the palestinians were offered that twice as part of peace agreement during Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmerts but they REFUSED. the only real questions are the details of the agreement and whether the other side should be trusted.

3. Israel conquered the Golan Heights for a reason. it's a very high place and Syrian snipers used it to put Israel civilians and farmers into target. in addition nowdays when Syria and Lebanon have so many rockets and missiles it is even more dangerous. and while Assad family officially stated that in the next war they will deliverly aim civil centers you can't expect anyone to take such a suicidial action. The Golan Heights will only be brought back to Syria as part of peace agreement.

4. Regarding the Palestinian history Issue. we largely debated it in the forum last weeks and i can't write long blocks of text every time someone mentions it. if you want that argument relevant you need to bring prrof to palestinian immodern national identity or even way of life that is above tribe.

5. It's true that the Likud party goes further right every year. but honestly the only reason they keep winning elections is the fault of the left. two years ago everyone wanted them to end their mandatory but instead of letting it happen the media desided to promote the most hated party of Israel (The Labour Party) as the main opponent of Nethanyahu. ofcourse half of Israel's population would rather give Hitler a second chance to have the Labour Party then we got 4 more years of the Likud. at the previous elections they did the same thing and founded journalists party that won the third place. in the last elections the journalist party (yesh atid) was suppose to bring the Likud down but the popular media refused to support it again because it was'snt leftist enough. the thing in Israel is that it's clear for everyone there is someone behind the wires so it's hard to gain their trust. if they would just let new party grow in netural way we would have cool government from already long time ago.

You need to understand that the left wing of the political map in Israel is still larger than the right wing. they are just devided into 3 or 4 major parties and another people in Israel is people vote to the big parties just so the other big party the hate more would'nt win so the representation is not really equal.

(But!! even though the Likud is full of morons it is far from being the fasict party that people try to make it look like. i often see people on the internet accuse it for the fact there is no peace. but in fact the Palestinian government does lot of effort to make sure their public will oppose any agreement with Israel - by education propoganda and etc..).

And - right wing party winning elections is not even close to the holocoust. especially now when they rise everywhere.

As I said, reporting to the last thing about the far-right party, I didn't mean it as establishing a paralel between Far-right and fascist and holocaust-ic


Reporting to all other subjects, we can report those to my initial idea, of having Jerusalem owned by neither party. Jerusalem is almost a hyper-sacred city, being the center of the biggest and most notorious religions, historically, culturally, politically, geopolitically and teologically. Having a United Nations as a hyper-supranational organization with a worldwide reach I'd happily support Jerusalem being made International Territory Accessible to all creeds and people, that'd have been the moost reasonable answer. Though I support the 2 State Solution and a regulated division of Jerusalem. If Palestine oversteps, they should get the belt, same with Israel.

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 18:09

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 17:45

I'm sorry but Jews can't live off of the Holocaust and what it happened to them, it doesn't give them special status in shit in the International Community and shouldn't, they're a State like every other State and equal (though equality does not exist and there's States superior to others). Israel is that country that cries about the Holocaust, bitches about it whenever it's mentioned but then occupied foreign land like the Golan Heights (whom they don't even de jure control) and other places, that and the fact that they're arrogant enough to disqualify Palestine from anything, when infact, they've been here for ages.
Personally I've never liked Israel because they are abusive and arrogant, and if you knew how much I loled when ur Israeli PM went to beg the EU to support him and the EU and all the states within it delivered the middle finger xd

A 2 State-solution is the only viable and "reasonable" solution with Jerusalem as the Capital of the 2 states. The State of Palestine exists and should exist, no matter what Israel bitches after that.

(Notice the hypocrisy of the Israelis by bitching about Holocaust every second but they have a far-right party in the Government? lol)

I will respond to this. but it seems like you forced yourself to make arguments because the base of your argument are very rough.

1. Israel does not live off the holocoust. Israel was founded in 150 years process despite the efforts of the west to oppose it or to slow it down.

2. We do not disgregard their existance. as i said the Israel public supports two states solution and big parts of it (i was tempted to say majority but it's deep night and i'm to lazy to check or bring sources) even willing to split Jerusalem for it. in fact the palestinians were offered that twice as part of peace agreement during Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmerts but they REFUSED. the only real questions are the details of the agreement and whether the other side should be trusted.

3. Israel conquered the Golan Heights for a reason. it's a very high place and Syrian snipers used it to put Israel civilians and farmers into target. in addition nowdays when Syria and Lebanon have so many rockets and missiles it is even more dangerous. and while Assad family officially stated that in the next war they will deliverly aim civil centers you can't expect anyone to take such a suicidial action. The Golan Heights will only be brought back to Syria as part of peace agreement.

4. Regarding the Palestinian history Issue. we largely debated it in the forum last weeks and i can't write long blocks of text every time someone mentions it. if you want that argument relevant you need to bring prrof to palestinian immodern national identity or even way of life that is above tribe.

5. It's true that the Likud party goes further right every year. but honestly the only reason they keep winning elections is the fault of the left. two years ago everyone wanted them to end their mandatory but instead of letting it happen the media desided to promote the most hated party of Israel (The Labour Party) as the main opponent of Nethanyahu. ofcourse half of Israel's population would rather give Hitler a second chance to have the Labour Party then we got 4 more years of the Likud. at the previous elections they did the same thing and founded journalists party that won the third place. in the last elections the journalist party (yesh atid) was suppose to bring the Likud down but the popular media refused to support it again because it was'snt leftist enough. the thing in Israel is that it's clear for everyone there is someone behind the wires so it's hard to gain their trust. if they would just let new party grow in netural way we would have cool government from already long time ago.

You need to understand that the left wing of the political map in Israel is still larger than the right wing. they are just devided into 3 or 4 major parties and another people in Israel is people vote to the big parties just so the other big party the hate more would'nt win so the representation is not really equal.

(But!! even though the Likud is full of morons it is far from being the fasict party that people try to make it look like. i often see people on the internet accuse it for the fact there is no peace. but in fact the Palestinian government does lot of effort to make sure their public will oppose any agreement with Israel - by education propoganda and etc..).

And - right wing party winning elections is not even close to the holocoust. especially now when they rise everywhere.

As I said, reporting to the last thing about the far-right party, I didn't mean it as establishing a paralel between Far-right and fascist and holocaust-ic


Reporting to all other subjects, we can report those to my initial idea, of having Jerusalem owned by neither party. Jerusalem is almost a hyper-sacred city, being the center of the biggest and most notorious religions, historically, culturally, politically, geopolitically and teologically. Having a United Nations as a hyper-supranational organization with a worldwide reach I'd happily support Jerusalem being made International Territory Accessible to all creeds and people, that'd have been the moost reasonable answer. Though I support the 2 State Solution and a regulated division of Jerusalem. If Palestine oversteps, they should get the belt, same with Israel.

I actually like that idea, just not the un running it, a free city who's people have equal rights and ability to vote on its own leaders.

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

You need to understand that Jerusalem population will reach million next decade. if terrorists will have their hand on half of it and start turning it into terror base against the other side of the city and battlefield it will take great chaos and casualties to take it back.

(put aside to damage to houses. religious places and civilians that will need mercy of raging terrorists to survive). liberating mosoul took half year.

Regarding making it international zone. it was that way in the beginning. but then the Arabs started blindly attacking all the Jews there and Jordan conquered the city and turned the city into battlefield for 20 years. putting people in such position again just because you choose to be blind to reality is kinda selfish let's admit it. speaking of arrogance huh

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

Having a United Nations as a hyper-supranational organization with a worldwide reach I'd happily support Jerusalem being made International Territory Accessible to all creeds and people,

Jersualem is already accessible to all religions and peoples.

Honestly i don't see any good will behind your contect behind pure unuseful ambition. It's time you start understanding reality instead of trying to be edgy.

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 18:45

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

Having a United Nations as a hyper-supranational organization with a worldwide reach I'd happily support Jerusalem being made International Territory Accessible to all creeds and people,

Jersualem is already accessible to all religions and peoples.

Safely? Doub that. And Jerusalem is controlled by a State that has a certain religion as official. That makes it under the control of a religion

Geschreven door Rock Lee, 15.12.2017 at 18:41

Regarding making it international zone. it was that way in the beginning. but then the Arabs started blindly attacking all the Jews there and Jordan conquered the city and turned the city into battlefield for 20 years. putting people in such position again just because you choose to be blind to reality is kinda selfish let's admit it. speaking of arrogance huh

Well I'm here opinating about religious issues, but I think Religion is a cancer to society and served greatly as an engine for cultural developent and cultural retardation xd

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:47

Safely? Doub that. And Jerusalem is controlled by a State that has a certain religion as official. That makes it under the control of a religion

Let's start with the fact the the muslim holy places are under mandatory of muslims (Jordanians). and all religions have free access for their holy place. same thing for any movment of christianity and Judahism.

Israel does everything it can to keep the city safe. But Deviding the city into 2 or creating state of anarchy again will not make it any safer. again it feels like your just being selish for now.

Happy Hanukkah

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

I'd happily support Jerusalem being made International Territory Accessible to all creeds and people, that'd have been the moost reasonable answer. If

How about no? Muslims stole it during the Islamic conquest and we took it back and gave it to jews. It is in fact really that simple, what cant you understand?

Geschreven door Al Fappino, 15.12.2017 at 18:36

Palestine oversteps, they should get the belt, same with Israel.

There is no Palestine as you mean it. If you mean Jordano-Syriano-Lebanese nomads that live in tents, collaborate with terrorists and call themselves "Palestinians" then they do not exist and they have no state. Fake country, fake news.