Based on a lot of feedback from the community, and discussions in the forums (mainly here, but other posts also), we've decided to implement two strategy changes. Here are the details:

Change #1: Lucky Bastard (LB) nerf
  • +10 Cost for ALL units, including Infantry & Militia


Change #2: Desert Storm (DS) nerf
  • Removed +1 capacity for Helicopters


These changes are not necessarily permanent... try them out for the next month or so, and let us know what you think!

Cheers!
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Reacties: 92   Bezocht door: 1304 users
07.01.2019 - 09:52
Changing a start without asking the scenario community good job pleasing the competitive community i guess

Edit:Based on a lot of feedback from the community, and discussions in the forums (mainly here, but other posts also), we've decided to implement two strategy changes. Here are the details:

Yes i am sure that 50% of the people that posted there are forum stalkers that never played the game
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 09:54
It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.

The massive upkeep increase basicly makes the strategy very unattractive, if anything, the crit should have been reduced by 2. Would have much rather seen a buff to RA and other weak strategies than axing a popular strategy.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 10:16
When i first started playing this game, i thought the strats countered eachother... like LB is best to played vs XX.
Wouldnt that be nice to have strategies not by hierarchically ranked but all at the same level and have a counter to each other.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 10:21
Very necessary patch, and I'm glad as hell that you're showing a willingness to balance the meta. Feels weird coming to this game knowing the admin is active now.

What I now believe is necessary is collecting quantitative data and establishing an official tierlist so future patches can be implemented accordingly once meta(s) have been solved.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 10:37
I can't speak to the LB nerfs considering that I rarely used LB before (I despise LB for its crit mechanics) but the overall concept does seem frustrating as it leads to encouraging only a few strats to be viable in most environments.

Imp (and sometimes PD) are often the only viable strats on most scenario maps and ive seen LB become more niche in countering those strats in some maps, but I fear that then this will restrict the scenario community to only being able to use imp due to the lack of money in a lot of these scenarios (in particular works by Aetius and Pyrrhus as well as others).
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 10:48
 Alex
This is gross
----
Orcs are a horde, much like Turks. Elves and Men are light skinned, Orcs are often darker/sallow skinned, like Turks.

Istanbul?Thats not how you pronounce Constantinople
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 10:52
Making a strategy unpopular that has been spammed everywhere is fine. People can get around to learning different ones now.
Besides critical hits are cancerous in a game where luck dependent mechanism like rolls and turnblocks are already determining the outcome of some games.
----
Competitive Europe vs Asia
https://atwar-game.com/forum/topic.php?topic_id=39403
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 11:02
----
Veni vidi vici
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 11:26
Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:45

Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 06:37


As usual the majority of the community has their voice unheard.
LB now generally unplayable in most scenarios thanks to this update. Why continually nerf strats until we are left with a bland set of strategies to pick from that no one likes.


There is A lot of the strats u can use in rp.

Those changes are legit due to this equation :

LB is killing competitive cause everyone using it all the time > change the strat will only have a small impact on rp

Lol RP? classic ignorance of retard competitive branding maps that dont use default as 'rp'. Ignorance is not bliss.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 11:33
Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:45

Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 06:37

Geschreven door GustDNZ, 07.01.2019 at 05:29

That suck now on scenario i can't anymore play lb,
why u doing that change with only taking care about classic world map or classic 3v3 …
majority of commu Don't play 3v3, eu, or cw take care about that ! not about the few players playing only 3v3 and cw

As usual the majority of the community has their voice unheard.
LB now generally unplayable in most scenarios thanks to this update. Why continually nerf strats until we are left with a bland set of strategies to pick from that no one likes.


There is A lot of the strats u can use in rp.

Those changes are legit due to this equation :

LB is killing competitive cause everyone using it all the time > change the strat will only have a small impact on rp

Then you should adapt and stop trying to make the majority adapt so a small group of people can play their dead map togheter
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 11:43
Dave can you look into Relentless Attack strategy, i made a topic about it not long ago. It was called Tank General before and it buffed main attack units, now it is just closer to Blitzkrieg than offensive strategy. It would be nice to have simple offensive strategy for scenarios (cavalry, chariots, artillery, tanks, anything)
----
If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 11:58
 Dave (Administrator)
Geschreven door Brsjak, 07.01.2019 at 11:33

Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:45

Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 06:37

Geschreven door GustDNZ, 07.01.2019 at 05:29

That suck now on scenario i can't anymore play lb,
why u doing that change with only taking care about classic world map or classic 3v3 …
majority of commu Don't play 3v3, eu, or cw take care about that ! not about the few players playing only 3v3 and cw

As usual the majority of the community has their voice unheard.
LB now generally unplayable in most scenarios thanks to this update. Why continually nerf strats until we are left with a bland set of strategies to pick from that no one likes.


There is A lot of the strats u can use in rp.

Those changes are legit due to this equation :

LB is killing competitive cause everyone using it all the time > change the strat will only have a small impact on rp

Then you should adapt and stop trying to make the majority adapt so a small group of people can play their dead map togheter


I love how you refer to your opinion as the "majority", when in fact these strat changes ARE what the majority asked me for.

Anyway you've made your point, time to move on.
----
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu

Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 12:02
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 11:58

Geschreven door Brsjak, 07.01.2019 at 11:33

Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:45

Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 06:37

Geschreven door GustDNZ, 07.01.2019 at 05:29

That suck now on scenario i can't anymore play lb,
why u doing that change with only taking care about classic world map or classic 3v3 …
majority of commu Don't play 3v3, eu, or cw take care about that ! not about the few players playing only 3v3 and cw

As usual the majority of the community has their voice unheard.
LB now generally unplayable in most scenarios thanks to this update. Why continually nerf strats until we are left with a bland set of strategies to pick from that no one likes.


There is A lot of the strats u can use in rp.

Those changes are legit due to this equation :

LB is killing competitive cause everyone using it all the time > change the strat will only have a small impact on rp

Then you should adapt and stop trying to make the majority adapt so a small group of people can play their dead map togheter


I love how you refer to your opinion as the "majority", when in fact these strat changes ARE what the majority asked me for.

Anyway you've made your point, time to move on.

Lets make an aw census then?
Edit:Inform yourself on your games demographics first most of the people that talked in that thread didnt play the game for months just because the scenario community doesnt use the forums doesnt mean we dont exist
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 12:02
 Dave (Administrator)
Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 07.01.2019 at 09:54

It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.


These changes were being discussed in the forums going back almost a year, before I was even here. So in all honesty you can't say you weren't "consulted", when you had plenty of opportunity to make your case in the forums.
----
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu

Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 12:18
Both sides are partly right.

1. Scenario community is the largest playerbase, yet the most silent.
2. CW/3v3 community is the smallest, yet most vocal.

Therefore you did right to listen the >majority of voices< and act, but that also mean majority of playerbase is disatisfied with the changes.

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.
----
If a game is around long enough, people will find the most efficient way to play it and start playing it like robots
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 12:26
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 12:02

Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 07.01.2019 at 09:54

It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.


These changes were being discussed in the forums going back almost a year, before I was even here. So in all honesty you can't say you weren't "consulted", when you had plenty of opportunity to make your case in the forums.


Well for starters, many people who play the game don't actively visit the forums. The people who frequent forums are almost a demography of their own.

The problem is the fact that many strategies are just worthless and the few strategies that are viable for most maps should not be reduced upon. I think that getting rid of the extra upkeep for militia for LB could be enough to make the strategy viable. Although I will have to do more testing to see if that is sufficient.

Furthermore I'd like to bring up the idea of having mapmakers create custom strategies for their maps, this way there is even more variety in strategies without risking harm the competitive scene meta.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 13:43
Only thing to use lb for is cyprus i guess in cyrpus vs malta
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 14:02
Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:24

How come Dave joined 4nic's clan and took it over? Also I think the award for biggest noob on AtWar goes to...
khm khm khm
tada tada tadu

(look who lost the duel!)



Congratulations Sultan!

don't be silly, he lost that on purpose, you know, for reasons... ulizica
----
No such thing as a good girl, you are just not the right guy.

Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 14:23
 Witch-Doctor (Mod)
Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 07.01.2019 at 09:54

It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.

The massive upkeep increase basicly makes the strategy very unattractive, if anything, the crit should have been reduced by 2. Would have much rather seen a buff to RA and other weak strategies than axing a popular strategy.


Get real i've played a SHIT TON of scenarios and in almost all of them, imperialist is the best strat BAR NONE. It just happen that Lb was so broken that sometimes it was better than imp.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 14:25
 Witch-Doctor (Mod)
Geschreven door CIovis, 07.01.2019 at 08:52

Geschreven door Guest, 07.01.2019 at 06:45

Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 06:37

Geschreven door GustDNZ, 07.01.2019 at 05:29

That suck now on scenario i can't anymore play lb,
why u doing that change with only taking care about classic world map or classic 3v3 …
majority of commu Don't play 3v3, eu, or cw take care about that ! not about the few players playing only 3v3 and cw

As usual the majority of the community has their voice unheard.
LB now generally unplayable in most scenarios thanks to this update. Why continually nerf strats until we are left with a bland set of strategies to pick from that no one likes.


There is A lot of the strats u can use in rp.

Those changes are legit due to this equation :

LB is killing competitive cause everyone using it all the time > change the strat will only have a small impact on rp

1.- whitout lb the only strats left for competitive are pd and imp. If gc gw sm nc and blitz are low use and are only usefull for ukrania or to do specific moves(like nc uk) you will never compare the times people play pd or imp whit the other strats.
2.- rp no longer exist in atwar, it is rarely played now, you just cant name any other map except boring default europe "rp". This hurt hard the scenario community(i am part of it) and i can say lb is not over used(imp is) but is a very good option to try if you boring of imp or want to do specific moves, now it is useless for almost everything, other maps like ancient world or default world use lb a lot too, but at least they have many good strats to pick, other ramdom maps that are up sometimes (like shogunate, rome politicial, colonial age, world in xxxx) use lb too.
3.- And this is to the lb nerf, i am disagreed whit the +10 for militia, the upkeep will be very high for this and the mil is not used at all majority of games, it is already annoying to have militia in many places doing nathing but costing you money, i doubt somebody will spam lb militia as a meta so this just ruin strat to much in my opinion.
4.- Now that lb is ruined, you can bring back some strats to a usefull way, strats like hw (totally useless and never played except for trolling) ra and blitz(mainly used for noobs/low ranks/new players and blitz for very specific moves but still useless) mos (this is a good strat but low used, i think because it is an expensive strat so people dont find it good for competitive or low starting funds maps, maybe a small buff can
introduce this strat:D)


Everything you said in point #1 is so wrong i'm not even gonna bother debunking it.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 15:07
 Dave (Administrator)
Geschreven door Skanderbeg, 07.01.2019 at 12:18

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.

Then they need to speak up.
----
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu

Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 15:26
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 15:07

Geschreven door Skanderbeg, 07.01.2019 at 12:18

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.

Then they need to speak up.

Removing the 10+ cost on militia whould fix 90% of the problems
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 15:38
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 15:07

Geschreven door Skanderbeg, 07.01.2019 at 12:18

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.

Then they need to speak up.

They don't ever bother to enter the forums in the first place.
Why are strategies only considered op in one area getting annexed when there are several strategies useless for years that no one plays.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 15:46
 Witch-Doctor (Mod)
Geschreven door lsilorien, 07.01.2019 at 15:38

Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 15:07

Geschreven door Skanderbeg, 07.01.2019 at 12:18

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.

Then they need to speak up.

They don't ever bother to enter the forums in the first place.
Why are strategies only considered op in one area getting annexed when there are several strategies useless for years that no one plays.


Your inability to use a strat doesn't make it useless
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 17:10
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 12:02

Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 07.01.2019 at 09:54

It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.


These changes were being discussed in the forums going back almost a year, before I was even here. So in all honesty you can't say you weren't "consulted", when you had plenty of opportunity to make your case in the forums.

I am greatly disturbed in infantry reduction of movements at PD as PD user
----
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http://prntscr.com/n1ymiv
Tacent quibbus Italia noverca est
Lirbur: therapy for england claims of superiority
Lirbur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWyvoWzq3EM
Lirbur: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_S8tP9wu2W0
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 17:24
Geschreven door Witch-Doctor, 07.01.2019 at 15:46


Your inability to use a strat doesn't make it useless

Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 17:51
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 11:58

I love how you refer to your opinion as the "majority", when in fact these strat changes ARE what the majority asked me for.


Yes and I hope you will learn from that mistake.

Opinions of skilled experienced and active players > opinions of mindless majority.

Although I am curious, what majority asked for the militia nerf on lb to be restored. Sultan asked for it on page 1 of my thread and I explained why it was a bad idea. Nobody refuted what I said and I didnt include it in my post so why was it added?

Also where did the ds heli marine capacity nerf idea come from? I can't find any origin for that 1. The majority i saw clearly wanted a defence nerf.
----
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 18:23
 Witch-Doctor (Mod)
Geschreven door bubartem, 07.01.2019 at 17:24

Geschreven door Witch-Doctor, 07.01.2019 at 15:46


Your inability to use a strat doesn't make it useless




I'll take any of you empire noobs on any map any scenario if you think I only know how to play imp/pd/lb.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 18:42
In all honesty, I have a feeling its like always talking to a wall when it comes down to talking to the scenario community about stuff like this.

How do you expect to balance a strategy based on maps/scenarios? Every goddamn scenario/map is different, from pre-set countries with shitton of income to poor as fuck regions. It still remains a fact that Europe is still the most balanced map of this game and strategies should be balanced based on this map.

And saying you are the majority and that most of your people don't look at forums isn't really an argument lol. We get that you guys want to be recognized as the other community and have a say in stuff like this, but how do you see that happen? People who barely have played any strategies besides PD or IMP, telling what strategies should be dealt with? It sounds delusional.
----





Geschreven door Guest14502, 11.10.2014 at 09:44

Waffel for mod 2015
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 20:06
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 15:07

Geschreven door Skanderbeg, 07.01.2019 at 12:18

It is never good to lean only to one side, for any reasons. Balance is the key. Compromise. Try to balance between two sides.

Then they need to speak up.

I agree with Dave completely. If you make no objections your silence can be taken as a agreement. Although a suggestion I have for further strategy updates, would be a poll created by Dave that would appeal to the community at a whole.

I think the general consensuses between the community that updates would be limited, but as Dave has stepped up and became our Dev this will change.
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 21:03
Greetings & Salutations,
Since i have not been on for the last year until last month, December, I never knew there was a discussion to modify the Strats, that is until today. So where is the best place to state my objections? I don't really care to drag this particular thread on any longer than necessary. New thread?
Respectfully,
WM Dak
----
"The edge is never very far away, when you're hanging on by your fingernails." ©
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 23:13
Good to see the Lucky Bastard change. Making it more expensive is exactly what it needed. I am glad you didn't take away its unique critical chance.

Although a lot of other players have already mentioned this I wanted to put my 2 cents in as well, the Desert Storm nerf does nothing.

Glad to know that you're listening to the community I feel like its really been lifting player morale lately.
----
Laden...
Laden...
07.01.2019 - 23:28
 Dave (Administrator)
Geschreven door Warmonger Dak, 07.01.2019 at 21:03

So where is the best place to state my objections? I don't really care to drag this particular thread on any longer than necessary. New thread?


Here you go, let's start planning the next update here: Planning for Strategy Update 2019 #2
----
All men can see these tactics whereby I conquer,
but what none can see is the strategy out of which victory is evolved.
--Sun Tzu

Laden...
Laden...
08.01.2019 - 08:31
Geschreven door Mauzer Panteri, 07.01.2019 at 03:33

And what now, everyone have to play pd?

Sm is nerfed, cuz def is like blits. Lb nerfed, ds nerfed, gw def nerfed... Gc is sad story, blits totaly destroyed by lao, ra same... Pd and imper only left to be played and thats boring.

Why to have 7+ strats which can be interesting to play, when we all can spam imper infs...

agree dave can we buff other strats instead of nerfing op strats?
----

Laden...
Laden...
08.01.2019 - 10:08
Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 12:02

Geschreven door The_Empirezz, 07.01.2019 at 09:54

It would have been nice to consult the scenario community before radically altering LB for the entirety of the game.


These changes were being discussed in the forums going back almost a year, before I was even here. So in all honesty you can't say you weren't "consulted", when you had plenty of opportunity to make your case in the forums.


To resolve the concept of people complaining about appeasing the majority and who that majority is, may i suggest that the mods, admins and supporters make the suggestions for strat changes and put them forward in a well advertised poll?

That way we know for a fact what the active community wants. And if you dont vote... you cant conplain.
----
Laden...
Laden...
08.01.2019 - 15:15
 4nic
Geschreven door Waffel, 07.01.2019 at 18:42

In all honesty, I have a feeling its like always talking to a wall when it comes down to talking to the scenario community about stuff like this.

How do you expect to balance a strategy based on maps/scenarios? Every goddamn scenario/map is different, from pre-set countries with shitton of income to poor as fuck regions. It still remains a fact that Europe is still the most balanced map of this game and strategies should be balanced based on this map.

And saying you are the majority and that most of your people don't look at forums isn't really an argument lol. We get that you guys want to be recognized as the other community and have a say in stuff like this, but how do you see that happen? People who barely have played any strategies besides PD or IMP, telling what strategies should be dealt with? It sounds delusional.

i like how none of those noobs even tried aruging with you, this is so true.
----
''Everywhere where i am absent, they commit nothing but follies''
~Napoleon


Laden...
Laden...
08.01.2019 - 20:59
So whoever is louder and more obnoxious causes the change here xD same as real life, 95% of people own 5% of world asset while 5% own 95%... makes sense xD not complaining just pointing out the obvious.
----
A certain darkness is needed to see the stars..


____________
_________
_____
__
Laden...
Laden...
09.01.2019 - 04:13
Geschreven door Permamuted, 07.01.2019 at 17:51


Although I am curious, what majority asked for the militia nerf on lb to be restored. Sultan asked for it on page 1 of my thread and I explained why it was a bad idea. Nobody refuted what I said and I didnt include it in my post so why was it added?

Also where did the ds heli marine capacity nerf idea come from? I can't find any origin for that 1. The majority i saw clearly wanted a defence nerf.


Agreed on both counts. For my part, the Inf nerf is as it should be, but the +10 Militia cost is brutal because they automatically appear when you conquer a city. Having stack after stack of 4 maintenance cost each instead of 3, over which you have no control over those units appearing...
----
Embrace the void
Laden...
Laden...
09.01.2019 - 05:49
Kaska
Account verwijderd
Geschreven door Permamuted, 07.01.2019 at 17:51

Geschreven door Dave, 07.01.2019 at 11:58

I love how you refer to your opinion as the "majority", when in fact these strat changes ARE what the majority asked me for.


Yes and I hope you will learn from that mistake.

Opinions of skilled experienced and active players > opinions of mindless majority.

Although I am curious, what majority asked for the militia nerf on lb to be restored. Sultan asked for it on page 1 of my thread and I explained why it was a bad idea. Nobody refuted what I said and I didnt include it in my post so why was it added?

Also where did the ds heli marine capacity nerf idea come from? I can't find any origin for that 1. The majority i saw clearly wanted a defence nerf.


Sultan is a terrible player and mod, but still apparently has a lot of influence, I really don't get why.
Laden...
Laden...
09.01.2019 - 07:16
Geschreven door Cheesus_Crust, 08.01.2019 at 20:59

So whoever is louder and more obnoxious causes the change here xD same as real life, 95% of people own 5% of world asset while 5% own 95%... makes sense xD not complaining just pointing out the obvious.

Not everyone is a critical thinker, a vast majority of people are content with a simplistic life style. Yet the internet has brought on this notion that some how the majority is some how always correct.
----


We are not the same- I am a Martian.
Laden...
Laden...
09.01.2019 - 09:03
Nerfing strats might be a very well idea
but nerfing lb in money could develope badly in scenaerious.
Maybe you can find another way how to nerf it : D
btw remove gw nerf pls ; D
----
.
Laden...
Laden...
23.01.2019 - 13:04
Add a new strat. Prediction. Great Doctor- +3 HP -3 movement -1 damage =1 view
----
The best video game in history is......
(fortnite)

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